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Sin #3761259

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Opmerkings

Wuzzy Wuzzy 11 Jannewaris 2015 11 Jannewaris 2015 om 13:08:17 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Das heißt, dass der Name einen Namen hat, und der ist »Seltsam«.

brauchinet brauchinet 11 Jannewaris 2015 11 Jannewaris 2015 om 13:11:19 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Bei aller Liebe für Sprachexperimente...das ist Blödsinn.

Wuzzy Wuzzy 11 Jannewaris 2015 11 Jannewaris 2015 om 14:18:04 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Ja und? Sätze müssen keinen Sinn ergeben. Jedenfalls ist er grammatikalisch korrekt.

Es geht auf Tatoeba um Sprache an sich und nicht darum, ob die Sätze an sich irgendwie semantisch sinnvoll sind. Oder habe ich da eine Regel übersehen?

Es sind ja auch Sätze wie »Wenn hinter Fliegen Fliegen fliegen, fliegen Fliegen Fliegen hinterher.« auf Tatoeba und keinen juckt's.

Ooneykcall Ooneykcall 11 Jannewaris 2015, edited 11 Jannewaris 2015 11 Jannewaris 2015 om 14:25:08 UTC, edited 11 Jannewaris 2015 om 14:25:18 UTC flag Report link Permalink

>Sätze müssen keinen Sinn ergeben.
Sorry, that's wrong. The sentences here are supposed to make a certain amount of sense at least. Speaking of the flies-sentence, it makes perfect literal sense because it is trivially true: when flies fly after flies, they fly after flies, that's a tautology... However, it is not clear how a name can have a name of its own. When would you use it then?

Wuzzy Wuzzy 11 Jannewaris 2015, edited 11 Jannewaris 2015 11 Jannewaris 2015 om 14:58:44 UTC, edited 11 Jannewaris 2015 om 15:08:46 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Great, now also let's delete all sentences about the existance God then, just to be sure ...
Also let's get rid of all metaphors while we're at it, because they don't make any real sense, right?

(No, I do NOT want to start a debate about gods, ;-) ).

If you would delete all sentences which are not actually true, you would make the corpus a lot smaller. I thought it's all about language in itself, not about what is true.

And Ooneykcall: Nonsense literature is even a real genre in literature. So you would exclude a complete genre of literature only for “truthness'” sake.

Maybe you would view things differently if you read Through The Looking-Glass by Lewis Carroll, because in this novel (spoiler alert!), the weird example that names could have names is brought up (search for “White Knight's Song”).

Edit: I found it for you:
--------------
"You are sad," the Knight said in an anxious tone: "let me sing you a song to comfort you."

"Is it very long?" Alice asked, for she had heard a good deal of poetry that day.

"It's long," said the Knight, "but it's very, very beautiful. Everybody that hears me sing it——either it brings the tears into their eyes, or else——"

"Or else what?" said Alice, for the Knight had made a sudden pause.

"Or else it doesn't, you know. The name of the song is called 'Haddocks Eyes.'"

"Oh, that's the name of the song, is it?" Alice said, trying to feel interested.

"No, you don't understand," the Knight said, looking a little vexed. "That's what the name is called. The name really is 'The Aged Aged Man.'"

"Then I ought to have said 'That's what the song is called'?" Alice corrected herself.

"No, you oughtn't: that's quite another thing! The song is called 'Ways And Means': but that's only what it's called, you know!"

"Well, what is the song, then? " said Alice, who was by this time completely bewildered.

"I was coming to that," the Knight said. "The song really is 'A-sitting On A Gate': and the tune's my own invention."

----------------
(and so on …)

(source: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/.../Chapter_VIII)

Ooneykcall Ooneykcall 11 Jannewaris 2015, edited 11 Jannewaris 2015 11 Jannewaris 2015 om 15:46:32 UTC, edited 11 Jannewaris 2015 om 15:47:40 UTC flag Report link Permalink

It's not about truth, it's about making sense.
I remember that excerpt, it always seemed strange...
So how does this combine logically? The song's actual title is X, but the song is referred as Y, the name of the song is Z, its name is referred as A. Basically highlighting the difference between a title, a name and a referent, but what is the real difference?

I repeat though: However, it is not clear how a name can actually have a name of its own. When would you use it then?
i.e. would you please demonstrate how to correctly distinguish in speech between a name and its referent.

Wuzzy Wuzzy 11 Jannewaris 2015, edited 11 Jannewaris 2015 11 Jannewaris 2015 om 19:01:10 UTC, edited 11 Jannewaris 2015 om 19:04:17 UTC flag Report link Permalink

A name can have a name on its own. You can practically give everything a name: Persons, animals, concepts, etc. And names themselves. It is probably just a bit tricky to use in German, English and surely a lot of other languages.


Mein Name heißt »Seltsam«.
→ The name of the name of the speaker is “Seltsam”.

Mein Name ist »Seltsam«.
→ The name of the speaker is “Seltsam”

Also possible with the same meaning 2:
- Ich heiße »Seltsam«.
- Ich bin Seltsam.


In short: If it has quotation marks, it's quoted text (surprise!), if it does not have quotation marks, it is a referent.

raggione raggione 11 Jannewaris 2015 11 Jannewaris 2015 om 20:54:40 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Abgesehen von allem, was hier sonst gesagt wurde, wie steht es HIER mit den richtigen Anführungszeichen?

Wuzzy Wuzzy 11 Jannewaris 2015 11 Jannewaris 2015 om 21:57:55 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Worauf willst du hinaus? Bitte sei da etwas konkreter.

raggione raggione 11 Jannewaris 2015 11 Jannewaris 2015 om 22:32:41 UTC flag Report link Permalink

@Wuzzy
> Worauf willst du hinaus?

Ich beziehe mich auf Deinen Kommentar zu Satz ##880050

Übrigens, da gab es doch mal einen Film mit Peter Sellers: Dr Seltsam oder wie ich lernte die Bombe zu lieben.

al_ex_an_der al_ex_an_der 11 Jannewaris 2015 11 Jannewaris 2015 om 22:41:51 UTC flag Report link Permalink

So so, dein Name heißt "Seltsam". Und wo wohnt deine Adresse? ;-)

Wuzzy Wuzzy 12 Jannewaris 2015 12 Jannewaris 2015 om 23:25:22 UTC flag Report link Permalink

@raggione: Ja, bei dem Satz 880050 sind die Anführungszeichen jetzt OK.

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License: CC BY 2.0 FR

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This sentence was initially added as a translation of sentence #3761257la cizra cu cmene mi.

Mein Name heißt »Seltsam«.

tafoege troch Wuzzy, 11 Jannewaris 2015

keppele troch Wuzzy, 11 Jannewaris 2015

keppele troch GrizaLeono, 26 Septimber 2015