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담벼락 (7,161 스레드)
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[not needed anymore- removed by CK]
Two step process to finding more projects:
1. Find a sentence that was added about six months ago.
2. Do a Google search.
Single word sentences.
I know we have some sentences like, hello / bye / thanks
But please do not add more,
"Go." "Sell." tough valid sentence, grammaticaly speaking, add no value to tatoeba. We want on tatoeba sentences, yes, but sentences which bring more value than simple dictionnary entry.
So from now, except for new users, as they maybe don't know rules, I will simply delete them. Especially if they're added by people who pretend to have a behaviour which make them suitable for "trusted users" status.
We will soon edit the contributor guide about this.
anyway in a not so far future, even "natural" single word sentences (hello etc.) are made to be moved in a more suitable project. Because adding a language just because one has found on his dictionnary how to say "hello" in Azeri ...
Actually, I don't understand why "Buy" is less important than "Cat is not human". >_<
It's not. The issue as I understand it is that it's less useful for the purpose of Tatoeba.
Personally, I've always seen Tatoeba as a dictionary of words in context and grammatical structures. One reason why "buy" isn't as useful as the sentence about cats and humans is that the latter will tell you the syntax for X != Y and that the subject should have an indefinite article or be plural:
"A cat is not human", or
"Cats are not human"
Or, if one is referring to a specific cat:
"The cat is not human",
but that would (probably/possibly) be a different sentence.
Possibly "buy" could tell you something about some languages (e.g. "[You should/must] buy" would be "kauptu" but "[I'm going to] buy" would be "kaupa" in Icelandic) but that's really only useful if there is annotation. If people add those, I think it'd be very useful, indeed. Otherwise we're just copying a dictionary, and poorly at that...
But Buy is an example of imperative mood.
In may languages it would have a T-V distinction...
> But Buy is an example of imperative mood.
But buy, by itself, is a terrible example of imperative mood or anything else. You'd be better off with something like ...
It's coming up to Christmas here and all the shops are like "Buy! Buy! Buy!"
I agree with Blay_paul
for the more precise guideline, we will write a blog post, my commments are just to warn, as one user was adding a bunch of sentences like this and I've deleted them.
So basically, yep "Buy." may be imperative mood, but then we can illustrate it in more obvious context.
Moreover I haven't said "Buy." has no value for a learner, it's just it's not the goal of tatoeba.
for the definition of "ONE WORD" of "one" and "word" , rather than word I will say "one sementical unit", I know for language such as Turkish you can have one """word""" but which is in fact a whole sentences, and a complex one.
So I will say (but the definition will may be change, for the definitive one, we will wait the blog post) that if an entry in tatoeba can also be found in a dictionnary, (delta the flexion), then it should be illustrated.
After for the example with cats, as Swift said, the purpose of tatoeba is not only to illustrate words, but also to point out some "pattern", which you can't find at all in a dictionnary, I think for this one, we need quite "obvious/stupid" sentence, to be sure everyone understand and to focus on the grammar point (because I think not all users in tatoeba are expert in foreign languages, so for them we need simple sentences).
> rather than word I will say "one sementical unit"
What is a semantical unit? A seme?
Then "Buy" has 2 of these.
> that if an entry in tatoeba can also be
> found in a dictionnary, (delta the flexion)
In WWWJDIC you can find most phrases from Tatoeba.
WWWJDIC is a dictionary.
It means:
All Japanese phrases should be deleted.
IMHO all needs moderation. Boracasli lacks it, but forbiding all the 1-word sentences isn't any better.
for the precise decision I've said it will be done in the blog post
for "wwwjdic" is a dictionnary, I mean, a word dictionnary.
sure all need moderation, but do we have time to debate on all sentences ?
because "An apple." can be a nominal sentence, answering to "what are you eating".
So my opinion is rather a little strict rule, which will maybe avoid some sentences, but easy to remember apply, rather than weak definition.
When tatoeba will have hundreds of moderators, we will change our point of view.
> for the precise decision I've said it will
> be done in the blog post
Ah, yeah, we know how precise the blog posts are.
If we don’t yet have a definition of what a “sentence” in Tatoebian sense is (and I believe any attempt to give it would require deleting something from the database), so how can you give a definition of what an one-word sentence is?
> but do we have time to debate on all sentences ?
Well, since you did have time to delete boracasli’s harmless one-word sentences, I presume you do have spare time… -_-
> So my opinion is rather
> a little strict rule, which
> will maybe avoid some
> sentences, but easy to remember
> apply, rather than weak definition.
Strict rules simply don’t work when dealing with languages.
> because "An apple." can be a nominal
> sentence, answering to "what are
> you eating".
Note you can't find it in a dictionary, since dictionary doesn't list articles and article is not an inflection, so it passes the defintion you've given before.
IMHO what makes Tatoeba so nice is that the common sense prevails over the rules here. But everything does change... >_<
I don't see what the big deal is. Sysko just doesn't want people piling on dozens and dozens of single word entries. *cough*boracasli*cough* And having a general rule against them is a reasonable first step.
Existing entries (like the 'hello' 'goodbye' ones) can be grandfathered in, but I for one don't want to see new groups like those arriving. Let alone risk floods of words even less like sentences.
and as you've said , if someone really want to have the nominal sentence "An apple." or imperativ "Buy!" He can include it in clearer contenxt
["what are you eating" "an apple"]
The goal of tatoeba is not to cover all the panel of possible things one can say or write. If we cover 90% of possible structure, without having to debate during days about whether an entry has to be or not in tatoeba.
The more famous tatoeba will be, the more user like boracasli we will have, and I don't want to check all entries of these guys. The goal is to have something clear and simple that moderators can use without needing to say "But it's not clear if Trang and Sysko want it, wait them for an answer"
> The goal of tatoeba is not to cover
> all the panel of possible things one
> can say or write. If we cover 90% of
> possible structure, without having to
> debate during days about whether an
> entry has to be or not in tatoeba.
I don't understand in what way "Buy!" contradicts to the goals of the Tatoeba.
I don't understand why you've started this debate in the first place.
The fact is it lacks context, and it open doors to "controversial" entry "Apple." ("What is written on the board ?" "Apple." )
so if you want to have "buy!" you can do as blay paul said
It's coming up to Christmas here and all the shops are like "Buy! Buy! Buy!"
this doesn't please you ?
for the debate, it's explained on my previous post. And you give a perfect example, how many time do we have pass on discussing about "Buy!"
People debate because they believe sth is better...
But do as you wish. I'm out.
@Sysko
Don't make your next post.
@Demetrius
Give sysko a break - in the time he's wasted arguing with you we might have gone one of the items on the wishlist programmed!
Suppose we didn't have a "Sorry" in Tatar.
Someone would add "Ğafu itegez". It will pass the the rule. BUT no one will be able to translate it, since the translations won't pass the rule.
the goal is not to have such precise definition, even if by the past if was not the case,
for my spare time, I will not comment on it
so it will be in fact a definition of what we allow and what we do not allow in tatoeba
time change yep, sorry if we can't manage 1000+ sentences a day the same way we manage 10+ sentence a day.
That's a pity.
> In WWWJDIC you can find most phrases from
> Tatoeba.
> WWWJDIC is a dictionary.
Er, that's cheating. Technically the dictionary is Edict. Edict contains no* phrases from Tatoeba at all. The example sentences are separate from the dictionary, and even if they weren't it's clear that the argument is about Dictionary entries NOT example text in dictionary entries.
* Well, maybe a few.
> that's cheating
Of course it is. ;)
But what I meant is that dictionaries often provide example sentences. It depends on a dictionary. And technically half of the Tatoeba sentences can easily end up in a dictionary. It's not a reason to delete it.
I mean dictionnary entry, in the absolute the goal of tatoeba would to be the source of this example sentences. and most of open source dictionnary don't have example sentences, if we can collaborate rather than duplicate works, I think it's better.
What is a 'dictionary entry'?
I have several dictionaries of proverbs on my bookshelf. In fact, **anything** can turn out to be a dictionary entry.
seems you still haven't read the "it will all be explained" and stated in the blog post.
and yep anyway tatoeba is a dictionnary of example sentences. I mean a "word dictionnary"
> and yep anyway tatoeba is a
> dictionnary of example sentences. I
> mean a "word dictionnary"
These 2 sentences seem self-contradictory to me.
> seems you still haven't read
> the "it will all be explained" and
> stated in the blog post.
Blog post is the final decree.
What I question is the neccesity of such a decree.
I was answering
>"I have several dictionaries of proverbs on my bookshelf. In fact, **anything** can turn out to be a dictionary entry. "
so yep anything can be an entry (as tatoeba is sentence dictionnary), so I was refering to the entry of a word dictionnary when I said "we don't want in tatoeba things which can be found in a word dictionnary (but not only)"
The neccessity of a such a decree. It's not the first there's a debate
"does 'coalition of the willing' is something which has to be in tatoeba"
moreover Trang and me for personnal reason will maybe have less time in the future to take part in this kind of debates, especially in language we don't know. And number of users will increase. So we need moderators who can rely on clear definition of "what can be added in tatoeba, and what can't"
Does that include one of racist ones by Russians about Russian minorities? Can you send that one to me, or make it into a list, because I find them to be absolutely hilarious...
It doesn't seem like one worders should be a serious issue, since you can only have so many valid ones before you run into duplicates. And what's wrong with having a one-word imperative sentence for each verb in the language?
Can you give a more clear guidelines?
IMHO sentences shouldn't be deleted simply because you suspect they were taken from a dictionary.
Also consider polysynthetic languages, where a great lot of very useful phrases can be said in one word. For example, in Chukchi phrasebook I’ve found the following single word sentences:
«Титэтгивик?» means «How much?»
«Тантыԓянвыԓьын?» means «Is the road good?»
Do you think they are also out of the scope of this project?
I agree with demetrius...I've got a bunch of single word arabic sentences...
[not needed anymore- removed by CK]
I don't think the problem with the link in option 1. is that it is a multiple sentence example. I think the problem is that it was written by someone whose native language is not English.
I agree that we should discourage multiple-sentence items when the context isn't needed.
The longer the item, the harder it is to match elements in it to corresponding ones in translated sentences. Longer sentences also have more possibilities of equally accurate translations that make matching more difficult and make tagging sentence patterns more complicated.
I don't think we should enforce it (or how we'd go about that easily) but it could go in the Guide of a Good Contributor.
How to add a tag to a sentence? I can't find it at all >_<
You have to be a 'trusted_user' before you can add tags to sentences.
I am a trusted user and I still dont know how to add tags :(
Look up towards the top right of the screen when viewing a sentence ...
****************
Tags
[ type tag here ] [+]
No tag on this sentence yet.
View all tags
****************
Enter the tag and press the [+] button. (You may need to press the button twice).
Yes, sorry, we should probably add a small message to indicate that it's not available for everyone.
We are still in the phase of trying to define some conventions about tags, so that they won't be too much of a mess.
yes, you need to be a trusted user. I'm not a trusted user but i know what the trusted user do.
Hi everybody. I discover this site thanks to a friend and I want to experiment some sentences.
I'm not a bilingual (French is my mother tongue), so if I make mistakes, don't hesitate to post a comment.
See you soon
Quentin
Welcome to Tatoeba! ^^
Hi people, I am not back yet (too busy trying to get a degree), but I've installed the old version of the typing game at:
http://braulio.home.dyndns.org:1002/
I guess its best utility is in spotting errors on the sentences :P
The new version concept is more or less working by now, but I still have lots of things to implement. However, it's main feature -- competing against others -- is working well if you don't take into account it has only two texts, bad security, bad internet connection and bad anti-cheating. This new version can be seen at
http://braulio.home.dyndns.org/typing_jsf/
But don't expect too much from it... (and don't use your personal passwords). And it is in Portuguese for now.
Cool, thank you. ^^
سلام به سازنده گان این سایت و از طریق این سایت سلام به برنامه کلیک تلویزیون فارسی بی بی سی و سلام به همه دوستان،
امروز روز اول است که به این سایت پیوسته ام و آرزو می کنم تا به آخر با آن باشم، در رابطه به برنامه های این سایت بعداً باید قضاوت کرد و فعلا برای همه سلامتی آرزو می کنم.
با سپاس
فرهاد
سازندگان این سایت فارسی زبان نیستن و فارسی نمی دونن!
برای استفاده درست از این سایت به هلپ،پایین صفحه مراجعه کنید.
زنده باد زبان فارسی
مرسی
زنده باد زبان فارسی
:)
Can you add this as a sentence please? :)
it doesn't necessary!
you block me when i speak some patriotic talks!
=))
We don't. :) On the wall, there may be discussion. But if it's a sentence, it's 100% OK.
We need different sentences! ^^
And we do have patriotic sentences. :)
See:
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/467460
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/485186
ok,mercy!
can you explain me how this site helps program developer?
But is useful for natural language processing:
a) automatic translators,
b) sentence classification
Tatoeba is a text corpus. Programmers can write an algorithm, but they need a text corpus to make it work.
For example, in Tatoeba bad sentences have tags "rude", "offensive", "XXX".
Using a simple alghorithm[1] and Tatoeba sentences, anyone can write a program that can look at any sentence in the same language and say: "It's rude" or "It's not rude". It then can be used, for example, to hide some text from children.
Or, for example, it's possible to create a program that detects a language using Tatoeba data.
Or check whether the text is optimistic or pessimistic.
Or even to create automatic translators. (But for these, a lot of text is neccessary. For many language we have too few sentences for this... now :))
And many other things... Practically all programs working with language need a text corpus!
Tatoeba is not the only corpus, there are many of them. But Tatoeba is better because:
* It's free,
* It's multilingual (usually corpora support only 1 language, or 2, not more)
[1] For example, you can use a naive Bayesian classifier for this.
i think i should do search more about this!
Thank you very much for explanation!^^
Sentences with invalid characters.
475414 (CycL)
475415 (CycL)
475416 (CycL)
475417 (CycL)
475435 (CycL)
475436 (CycL)
476620 (Eng)
Sentences that were blank (but present) in the last sentences.csv output.
489979
489982
495841
496208
502451
502498
502808
Please run the Duplicate Removal script as well. There are, literally, thousands of duplicates at the moment.
At first login, after registered as new user, the Last login date shows as 1970-09-01.
This is the beginning date for Unix time.
Yes, I know it. May be it should be hidden at first time.
I'm having trouble adding translations with Opera (10.62).
When I press "Submit translation", the wheel just spins forever and nothing happens.
It works fine from Firefox.
It seems that get_tatoeba_root_url() returns "http://tatoeba.org:/eng", and Opera doesn't like having the colon without a port number.
what about now ? :)
Any chance of getting this fixed? Switching to Firefox for anything that uses AJAX is a bit annoying.
It would work if get_tatoeba_root_url() in generic_functions.js returned "http://tatoeba.org/eng" instead of "http://tatoeba.org:/eng"
It should be fairly simple, but I could make a patch if required.
there a chance, but these week I'm following a formation, I need to prepare my trip to China where I will be a campus director, so it's a lot of stuff to deal with, so unfortunately.
But as soon as I have some free time, I will try to fix it.
For the patch, yep if you can make it, I will only take 2 seconds for me to integrate it, so it's maybe the best solution, as I have no Opera on my computers.
Then please change these lines when you get the time, and good luck with your training. :)
--- a/generic_functions.js 2010-09-17 02:25:04.000000000 +0200
+++ b/generic_functions.js 2010-09-17 02:22:08.000000000 +0200
@@ -25,9 +25,8 @@
}
function get_tatoeba_root_url() {
- var hostname = self.location.hostname;
- var port = self.location.port;
+ var host = self.location.host;
var interfaceLang = get_language_interface_from_url();
- return "http://" + hostname + ":" + port + "/"+ interfaceLang;
+ return "http://" + host + "/"+ interfaceLang;
}
ok, I've done it. thanks
I cleared my cache and tried again, but I'm afraid I don't see any difference.