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담벼락 (7,413 스레드)

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IdiomHunter IdiomHunter 4 일 전 2026년 7월 1일 오전 8시 27분 42초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

I am currently speaking with some native speakers, and Quechua is not a single language, but rather a collection of dialects. In particular, the linguistic differences are sometimes so pronounced that speakers of a certain dialect might not understand those speaking another. Southern Quechua (known natively as urin qichwa) is by far the most widespread and spoken variety within the Quechua language family. I am currently contributing sentences in Cusco-Collao Quechua, which is a Southern Quechua variety. Southern Quechua (especially the Cusco variety or the literary standard) is usually the recommended variety for anyone wishing to start learning the language. I was wondering: wouldn't it be better to separate Quechua into 'Quechua (Southern)' and 'Quechua (dialectal)'? This way, we could ensure greater cohesion within the sentence corpus. From what I have seen here, a large part of the Quechua on this site is Southern.

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IdiomHunter IdiomHunter 2 일 전 2026년 7월 3일 오전 1시 8분 17초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Any opinions on this? I personally believe that separating Southern Quechua (from cusco) 🇵🇪 from Kichwa of Ecuador 🇪🇨 from all the other variations would be a great improvement. As I said, the cusco variation is the most standardized one and the one we should probably invest the most effort on

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ecorralest101 ecorralest101 2 일 전 2026년 7월 3일 오전 2시 4분 11초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Hello,

I agree with you. For sure Tatoeba should implement a separation of such varieties as they differ a lot from each other. I don't speak Quechua, but admire the beauty of the indigenous languages in our region of Latin America. Each language deserves respect and recognition.

AlanF_US AlanF_US 2 일 전 2026년 7월 3일 오후 12시 50분 5초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

It would only makes sense to split up Quechua if someone were intending to contribute in some variety other than Southern. Even in that case, I suspect that "Quechua (dialectal)" would not be the best name for that variety.

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IdiomHunter IdiomHunter 2 일 전, 수정된 때 2 일 전 2026년 7월 3일 오후 12시 56분 13초 UTC, 수정된 때 2026년 7월 3일 오후 1시 2분 57초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

That's true, but the issue is that right now in the quechua tag I see a mix of Quechua sentences from cusco, Kichwa of Ecuador and variations like Quechua from Bolivia. I believe this adds noise to the dataset, it would be important to separate these already existing examples now that there are just a few, in my opinion. Maybe we could create:

- Southern Quechua
- Kichwa of Ecuador (optional)
- Quechua (family)

Or the best approach could be including a tagging feature

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AlanF_US AlanF_US 2 일 전 2026년 7월 3일 오후 1시 30분 14초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Advanced contributors can add tags. If you want to apply to become an advanced contributor, please see the page "How to Become an Advanced Contributor" ( https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...d-contributors ). In the meantime, you can add comments indicating how you think individual sentences should be tagged.

I would suggest "Ecuadorean Kichwa" rather than "Kichwa of Ecuador". I would also try to use more specific tags than "Quechua (family)".

mhr mhr 6 시간 전 2026년 7월 5일 오후 12시 3분 27초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Perhaps (as a first step) you could create lists in order to keep the different varieties apart, e.g.:
https://tatoeba.org/en/sentences_lists/show/174958
https://tatoeba.org/en/sentences_lists/show/174959

gillux gillux 1 일 전, 수정된 때 1 일 전 2026년 7월 4일 오전 7시 29분 2초 UTC, 수정된 때 2026년 7월 4일 오전 7시 31분 27초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Because classifying language is hard work and the Tatoeba project has low ressources, it strictly follows the ISO 639-3 language classification operated by the SIL. This classification has a concept of macrolanguage [1] and Quechua happens to be one [2].

Actually, Tatoeba should not be treating macrolanguages as individual languages because it leads to the kind of issues you are describing. This problem also affects other language families on Tatoeba and we have already identified it [2] but it is yet to be resolved.

Tatoeba is a volunteer-based project, so nothing will happen unless people affected by/interested in this particular issue proactively help. To people who want to help: you can use tags to identify Quechuan languages, as AlanF_US suggested. As for the tag names, you can use the names or ISO codes listed in [2]. You can also open an new issue on GitHub [4] specifically for transitioning sentences in Quechuan languages [que] into each individual language. Ideally we need all Quechuan sentences to be properly tagged, or at least to know what member is using what language. We also need to decide on a language icon for each Quechuan language (maybe the current flag + iso code on the side could do).

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I..._macrolanguage
[2] https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/que
[3] https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/1673
[4] https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2

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gillux gillux 1 일 전 2026년 7월 4일 오전 7시 37분 18초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

By the way, Tatoeba also supports the Aymara [aym] language. I am mentioning it because Aymara uses a similar flag, so I guess it is somehow related to Quechuan. Aymara is also a macrolanguage: https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/aym so same problem, except Tatoeba only has 13 sentences in Aymara, so probably easier to solve.

IdiomHunter IdiomHunter 6 시간 전 2026년 7월 5일 오후 12시 13분 28초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Whatever way we find I would like for the variations to be included in the downloaded file, because it is necessary to train / test AI models for example

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AlanF_US AlanF_US 5 시간 전 2026년 7월 5일 오후 1시 10분 12초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

The Downloads page allows you to download tags in addition to sentences, links, and other data. You could use tags to separate the sentences on your side.

IdiomHunter IdiomHunter 1 시간 전, 수정된 때 1 시간 전 2026년 7월 5일 오후 4시 39분 10초 UTC, 수정된 때 2026년 7월 5일 오후 4시 39분 36초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Based on comment by user Killari we can infer he/she was contributing in a dialect from Perù. (see comment #6166099 ) Most likely from Cusco.

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IdiomHunter IdiomHunter 1 시간 전, 수정된 때 1 시간 전 2026년 7월 5일 오후 4시 43분 51초 UTC, 수정된 때 2026년 7월 5일 오후 5시 6분 52초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

User eeyinn states in his account to be contributing in Kichwa, Otavalo Kichwa (commonly classified under Imbabura Highland Quichua or Imbabura Quichua) is (qvi)

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IdiomHunter IdiomHunter 1 시간 전, 수정된 때 1 시간 전 2026년 7월 5일 오후 5시 6분 23초 UTC, 수정된 때 2026년 7월 5일 오후 5시 6분 41초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

User Wayramaru was writing in Ayacucho (Chanka) Quechua according to a native speaker I know (quy)

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IdiomHunter IdiomHunter 1 시간 전 2026년 7월 5일 오후 5시 14분 7초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Percentage of sentences (Quechua) by user:
User | Sentences| Percentage
-------------------------------------------------------
marloncori | 203 | 36.78%
Juanpa | 124 | 22.46%
IdiomHunter | 117 | 21.20%
Killari | 23 | 4.17%
Rockaround | 22 | 3.99%
Wayra | 21 | 3.80%
diegohn | 20 | 3.62%
Wayramaru | 9 | 1.63%
eeyinn | 5 | 0.91%
Balamax | 2 | 0.36%
zarisi | 2 | 0.36%
cwil | 1 | 0.18%
wallebot | 1 | 0.18%
amarusunqu | 1 | 0.18%
rdgscratch | 1 | 0.18%

Tamajeq1286 Tamajeq1286 9 일 전, 수정된 때 9 일 전 2026년 6월 26일 오전 10시 22분 46초 UTC, 수정된 때 2026년 6월 26일 오후 2시 18분 7초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Subject: Request to add Tawallammat Tamajaq [ttq] to Tatoeba

Dear Tatoeba Team,

I would like to request the addition of a new language to Tatoeba. Here are the required details:

Language name: Tawallammat Tamajaq
ISO 639-3 code: ttq
SIL link: https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/ttq
My Tatoeba username: Tamajeq1286
Public sentence list with 100+ sentences: https://tatoeba.org/ar/sentences_lists/show/174933

Tawallammat Tamajaq is a Southern Tuareg language with ~1.3 million speakers in Niger, Mali, and Nigeria. The list contains 100+ original sentences, not duplicates, and follows the standard Latin orthography with Ǝ ɣ š.

Thank you for your support in preserving and promoting this language.

Best regards,
Tamajeq1286

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Tamajeq1286 Tamajeq1286 9 일 전, 수정된 때 9 일 전 2026년 6월 26일 오전 10시 56분 37초 UTC, 수정된 때 2026년 6월 26일 오전 11시 9분 13초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Further supporting information for adding Tawallammat Tamajaq [ttq]:

To demonstrate the digital readiness and active support for this language, please note that there is already a substantial contribution on Glosbe, with over 250,000 translated entries spanning Arabic, English, and French. Please note that these are recent contributions, so they might not be fully reflected in Glosbe's public statistics yet:
- Tamajaq to Arabic: https://glosbe.com
- Tamajaq to English: https://glosbe.com
- Tamajaq to French: https://glosbe.com

Additionally, an electronic dictionary for Tamajaq is fully available. We can actively leverage this resource as a reference to contribute, verify, and expand high-quality sentence pairs directly on Tatoeba once the language is approved.

Thank you for considering this request!

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Tamajeq1286 Tamajeq1286 7 일 전 2026년 6월 27일 오후 11시 49분 50초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Dear Tatoeba Team,Following up on my language request for Tawallammat Tamajeq [ttq], I would like to inform you that I have a clean corpus of over 7,000 parallel sentences ready for import.These sentences were previously contributed by me to Glosbe under my official profile and platform (Tamajeq.com). Since I am the original author and creator of this data, there are no copyright issues, and the corpus fully complies with Tatoeba's CC-BY licensing terms.Once the language code is activated, I can provide the dataset in the required CSV/TXT format for a developer mass-import. Thank you!"

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gillux gillux 5 일 전 2026년 6월 29일 오후 7시 26분 50초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Inclusion of Tawallammat Tamajeq can be tracked on https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/3312

As for the dataset, you can submit it to team@tatoeba.org or open a new issue on Github with the file attached.

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Tamajeq1286 Tamajeq1286 5 일 전 2026년 6월 29일 오후 11시 18분 12초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Dear gillux,

I would like to express my deepest gratitude, utmost respect, and sincere appreciation to you and the Tatoeba team for approving my request and opening the GitHub issue so quickly. Your support in preserving and promoting this language means a great deal to our community.

Regarding the language icon for Tawallammat Tamajeq (ttq), I would like to kindly request using the national flag of Niger 🇳🇪 instead of the previous artwork. Since the vast majority of ttq speakers live in Niger and the language is officially recognized there, using the Nigerien flag will make it much easier for our community to identify their language on the website.

Thank you once again for your incredible understanding, support, and flexibility!

Best regards,
Tamajeq1286

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gillux gillux 5 일 전 2026년 6월 30일 오전 11시 43분 41초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

I can’t judge on the relevance of either icons, but I’d like to point out the current broader context to help decide.

Tawallammat Tamajeq (ttq) is part of the family of Tuareg languages. The SIL lists 4 of them: https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/ttq

Tatoeba already supports Tahaggart Tamahaq (thv) https://tatoeba.org/sentences/s...ne/indifferent which is another language used in Niger. The two other Tuareg languages Tayart Tamajeq (thz) and Tamasheq (taq) are not yet supported.

Tatoeba also supports the Hausa language (hau). This language uses the flag of Nigeria with letter code on the side. (It used to use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F...usa_people.svg and it is not clear why it was changed).

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Tamajeq1286 Tamajeq1286 4 일 전 2026년 6월 30일 오후 9시 22분 15초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

I previously submitted a cultural symbol, but some local linguists suggested that using the flag of Niger would be more accurate and preferable than simply a cultural symbol, since Tawallammat Tamajaq is a national language in Niger. I also suggest using 🇳🇪. Thank you very much.

sabretou sabretou 23 시간 전 2026년 7월 4일 오후 7시 11분 27초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

If I may insert myself here, I was responsible for the revision of language icons on Tatoeba back in the day. I kept some records of why I chose which icon for which language, but unfortunately, I did not record the rationale for my decision when it comes to changing the icon for Hausa.

If I have to guess now, it might be because I did not have a good enough source attesting the validity of the icon at that time. The flag linked in your message attributes its source to Enciclopaedia Heraldica, which is not a reliable source in my opinion, given its own lack of sourcing and information.

Tamajeq1286 Tamajeq1286 4 일 전 2026년 6월 30일 오후 10시 51분 40초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Dear gillux,

I previously informed you that I have a large collection of sentences translated into English, Arabic, and French. Some are available as plain text in my notes, some in spreadsheets, and some I previously converted to PDF. You kindly informed me that I could send them by email. My question now is: what formats should I use to send the sentences to you? I would appreciate a more detailed explanation of the most suitable and fastest method for this task, given the large number of sentences. It's important that you avoid a slow, manual approach while maintaining your established grammar guidelines.

Best regards,
Tamajeq1286

Tamajeq1286 Tamajeq1286 4 일 전 2026년 7월 1일 오후 12시 6분 51초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Hello everyone,Thank you for this great initiative and your efforts to support the Tawallammat Tamajaq (ttq) language.To contribute to this discussion and showcase the richness of the language, I would like to share this unique Tawallammat Tamajaq pangram. It contains all the official letters and modified characters used in the standard Tamasheq alphabet:"Xa bălla imuzărăn naŋŋin wər gəmmiyăn âr taggaẓt dəɣ Məššina fəl ad agəẓ ṭǝma n ăɣrǝm han măqqăja săkṣoḍnen."This sentence is a perfect example of the language's structure and can be very useful for testing fonts, character rendering, or language data in the project.Best regards!

ecorralest101 ecorralest101 2 일 전 2026년 7월 2일 오후 11시 59분 16초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Hello Tatoeba team,

I wanna ask you a question. Why does Tatoeba team take too long to accept a new language request?

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AlanF_US AlanF_US 2 일 전, 수정된 때 2 일 전 2026년 7월 3일 오후 12시 56분 14초 UTC, 수정된 때 2026년 7월 3일 오후 12시 57분 34초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

(1) We have other things keeping us busy. This is especially true for gillux, who adds new languages.
(2) Adding a new language requires substantial effort.
(3) Some new language requests will probably never be fulfilled, so if you're judging by those, the average is going to be thrown off.

2 일 전 2026년 7월 3일 오후 1시 34분 12초 UTC link Permalink
warning

이 메세지의 내용은 우리의 규칙에 어긋나 있기 때문에 숨김처리가 되었어요. 내용은 그 메세지를 쓴 사람과 관리자만 볼 수 있어요.

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AlanF_US AlanF_US 2 일 전 2026년 7월 3일 오후 3시 37분 26초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

I'm hiding your comment not for the usual reasons but because you've already made the same comment on GitHub. As gillux said a few hours ago:

https://tatoeba.org/en/wall/sho...#message_42003

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Tamajeq1286 Tamajeq1286 2 일 전 2026년 7월 3일 오후 3시 39분 49초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Ok I'm very sorry.

Tamajeq1286 Tamajeq1286 3 일 전 2026년 7월 2일 오후 5시 32분 5초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Dear gillux,

Is this method suitable for formatting sentences before sending them to you after saving them in a text file via email?

Ma dər tănsed? -> How did you sleep?
Ma dər toled? -> How are you?
Ma tăxallăkăd? -> How are you?
Man-ăwen-nəkk? -> How are you doing?
Tăggoḍăyăm? -> Are you thankful?
Ăytedăn-năwăn ma dər olăn? -> How are your people?
Bărarăn-nəkk ma dər olăn? -> How are your children?
Bărarăn-năm ma dər olăn? -> How are your children?
Kăyy d-ălmăz? -> You and the sunset?
Əgleɣ. -> I am leaving.

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gillux gillux 2 일 전 2026년 7월 3일 오전 9시 55분 10초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Hello, I feel like we are having some communication issues here. I feel a bit overwhelmed by the number of messages you sent lately. If nobody has answered yet, please give it some time instead of sending new messages over and over. For example, you can wait a few days.

There is no need to send the same message on the Wall, on GitHub, and by email. For a more efficient communication, please use a single communication channel, thank you.

The Wall (this present page) is a many-to-many public communication channel with no separation between topics, so if your message is not addressed or relevant to the whole Tatoeba community, consider using a more focused channel such as email or private messages (enveloppe icon) or a GitHub issue, thank you.

teto teto 10 일 전, 수정된 때 9 일 전 2026년 6월 25일 오후 5시 58분 36초 UTC, 수정된 때 2026년 6월 25일 오후 6시 54분 14초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Proposal to update the Laz language flag icon

I would like to propose an update to the flag icon used for the Laz language. The current file (lzz.svg) displays a fictional design mistakenly copied from an old Wikipedia asset. Wikipedia editors have since officially marked that asset as a hoax and removed it from factual history pages (archived on Wikimedia Commons as 'File:Fictitious flag of Lazistan Sanjak.svg').

I propose replacing it with the widely recognized cultural flag of Lazona (the name of the Laz land in the Laz language):

- design and emblem: A blue field (Black Sea) with a green stripe (nature) between thin white stripes (peace) at the bottom. A white Borjgali centered in the top blue section, serving as an ancient solar symbol and traditional emblem common to the broader Kartvelian cultural family (Megrelian, Svan, and Georgian).

Why this update is beneficial:

- native verification: It is actively used by language activists and is featured by a native speaker in the educational video on the official Omniglot Laz Language Page (https://omniglot.com/writing/laz.htm) explaining its cultural significance.

- regional acceptance: Because the majority of the Laz population resides within Turkey, the Turkish language query "Lazistan Bayrağı" was specifically checked to scrutinize potential regional sensitivities. The search heavily surfaces this design as a peaceful cultural identifier, confirming that this flag represents organic cultural acceptance by the population itself rather than any political or controversial move. I performed this check explicitly to abide by Tatoeba's strict guidelines regarding neutral, conflict-free language icon choices.

- technical standards: I have built a fully compliant, optimized SVG file. The Borjgali emblem has been preserved to the absolute best detail that a micro size of 30x20 pixels can allow, and the final file footprint is well under 2KB as required.

You can view the live flag artwork proposal directly at this address:

https://itty.bitty.site/#/data:...eha5n/ByHFgGo=

Thank you for your time and support in keeping Tatoeba's language assets accurate!

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gillux gillux 5 일 전, 수정된 때 5 일 전 2026년 6월 29일 오후 7시 21분 21초 UTC, 수정된 때 2026년 6월 29일 오후 7시 22분 3초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Hi teto, thank you for bringing this up. Your proposal looks sound and legit, I think we should change the flag. You can keep track of the progress of the flag change on Github: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/3308

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teto teto 5 일 전 2026년 6월 29일 오후 9시 1분 40초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Hi gillux,
Thank you for confirming the flag change.

teto teto 3 일 전 2026년 7월 2일 오전 9시 12분 35초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Hi gillux and the community,
Thank you so much for updating the Laz language flag!
I noticed that the Tatoeba page has been updated, and it is wonderful to see this beautiful new flag.

3 일 전 2026년 7월 2일 오전 7시 19분 44초 UTC link Permalink
warning

이 메세지의 내용은 우리의 규칙에 어긋나 있기 때문에 숨김처리가 되었어요. 내용은 그 메세지를 쓴 사람과 관리자만 볼 수 있어요.

Tamajeq1286 Tamajeq1286 3 일 전, 수정된 때 3 일 전 2026년 7월 1일 오후 6시 58분 14초 UTC, 수정된 때 2026년 7월 1일 오후 7시 9분 51초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Dear gillux,

I am currently organizing and cleaning up a database of over 10,000 sentences in Tawallammat Tamajeq (ttq) and their English translations using my phone's Notes app. I want to ensure the format is perfectly compatible with your import system.

From a data-processing perspective, I assume a single-line delimiter format is best. Would this format be suitable for you?

Format:
Ma tăxalăkă? -> How are you?
Lammădăɣ Tamajeq. -> I am learning the Tamajeq language.

(Note: If you prefer a different delimiter like a Tab (TSV), a pipe (|), or a specific symbol like (@), please let me know and I will adjust it).

Additionally, given the large volume of data (10,000+ lines), I will send the final output as an attached plain text (.txt) file rather than pasting it into the email body, unless you advise otherwise.

Thank you for your guidance and for your work on the platform!

Best regards,
Tamajeq1286

Tamajeq1286 Tamajeq1286 4 일 전 2026년 6월 30일 오후 10시 51분 38초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Dear gillux,

I previously informed you that I have a large collection of sentences translated into English, Arabic, and French. Some are available as plain text in my notes, some in spreadsheets, and some I previously converted to PDF. You kindly informed me that I could send them by email. My question now is: what formats should I use to send the sentences to you? I would appreciate a more detailed explanation of the most suitable and fastest method for this task, given the large number of sentences. It's important that you avoid a slow, manual approach while maintaining your established grammar guidelines.

Best regards,
Tamajeq1286

IdiomHunter IdiomHunter 5 일 전 2026년 6월 30일 오전 11시 9분 47초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

The Quechua language is composed of many roots and suffixes. This means that words sharing a similar meaning have similar roots. For example, Paqarimushan / Paqarin / Paqarillanpi are all different forms of the concept of morning and/or dawn. The search bar looks for exact matches, which means that if I search for 'Paqarin', I only find results containing exactly that term. If I wanted to search for all sentences containing the root 'Paqari-', I would not be able to do so. In my opinion, this is a limitation.

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CK CK 5 일 전 2026년 6월 30일 오후 12시 12분 18초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

Likely you can use the OR in searches like this:

Paqarimushan|Paqarin|Paqarillanpi

Click the "Help" link above the search bar for other advanced search techniques.

AlanF_US AlanF_US 5 일 전 2026년 6월 30일 오후 1시 54분 0초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

What CK says about using a vertical bar to search for a variety of words is correct, but limits you to the words you specified. You may find it helpful to use an asterisk as a wildcard to let you match a variety of leading and trailing strings. For example, *paqar* will find words that contain the fragment "paqar".

The help page at the "Help" link will indeed provide you with information, and the part about the asterisk is here:

https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...contain-someth

However, much of the information on the page is geared towards the 25 languages, including English, that support a stemmer, a tool written outside Tatoeba that strips common grammatical prefixes and suffixes within a language. Thus, in English, a search for "living" will also find sentences with "live" and "lived". Unfortunately, the search engine that Tatoeba uses doesn't have a stemmer for Quechua, and writing one would be a substantial project. Hopefully, using the asterisk in your searches will accomplish what you need.

LeviHighway LeviHighway 6 일 전 2026년 6월 29일 오후 4시 15분 22초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

https://tatoeba.org/zh-tw/users/for_language/eng

It seems like users who were active within the last week are no longer being prioritized in the display.

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gillux gillux 5 일 전 2026년 6월 29일 오후 7시 57분 30초 UTC flag Report link Permalink

I confirm this issue: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/3314