Our data is released under various Creative Commons licenses.More information
If you love this content, please consider a donation.
Wall (7.418 threads)
Tips
Before asking a question, make sure to read the FAQ.
We aim to maintain a healthy atmosphere for civilized discussions. Please read our rules against bad behavior.
ecorralest101
Fa 9 hores
AlanF_US
Fa 10 hores
AlanF_US
Fa 10 hores
ecorralest101
Fa 13 hores
rul
Fa 16 hores
IdiomHunter
Fa 17 hores
Tom9358
Fa 21 hores
Tom9358
Fa 22 hores
Tom9358
Fa 22 hores
rul
2 days ago
Hello @admins, my friend Ervin Hogdson sent a request for adding the Rama language. This is spoken in the Caribbean coast of Nicaragua, it's a Chibchan language. I don't know if here it the right place to ask, I hope I am not inappropriate. I just want to follow up. I also know you guys are too busy doing other stuff.
Thanks for checking in with us.
There is a page that covers the process of making a language request:
https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...nguage-request
It's part of the Tatoeba wiki, which means you can find it by using the link "Tatoeba Wiki" at the bottom of any page.
From the introduction: "A new language should be requested only if the requester is planning to add a substantial number of sentences in that language."
Ervin should set up a Tatoeba account and follow the procedure described on the page.
Thanks. He has followed all the steps required. I will let him know that he needs to write more sentences so it is substantial for Tatoeba.
Hey! Weet iemand of er een alternatief bestaat voor https://tatoeba.j-langtools.com/transtop/ ? Die pagina is sinds maart niet meer bijgewerkt.
You could send the Tatoeba user sharptoothed (the maintainer of that page) a private message.
I've put together a "linguistic stress test" of sentences demonstrating various aspects of English grammar, for comparative purposes.
We have more than one of these already (a famous one is the "apple is red" series), but if you're bored and looking for useful sentences to translate, here are some you can work on: https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...&direction=asc
Thank you, this is very helpful. How did you decide which sentences to add?
I'll come clean, it was mostly a matter of prompt engineering. I asked for 50 sentences showing the broad grammar of English for the purpose of comparative grammar study:
"generate 50 english sentences that would broadly serve the purpose of analyzing the grammar of other languages when translated. try to cover all the major aspects of grammar, if not every subtlety"
The LLM showed its "work," though, in that it said which aspect of English grammar each sentence was an example of.
Note: The below sentences may differ slightly from those in the list.
The dog sleeps. — intransitive verb, present tense
The girl opened the door. — transitive verb, definite object
The teacher gave the child a book. — ditransitive verb
There is a mouse under the table. — existence + location
The cup is on the shelf. — copula + locative phrase
The sky became dark. — change of state
My brother is a doctor. — identity/class membership
This soup tastes strange. — sensory predicate
I have three sisters. — possession + numeral
The woman’s bicycle is broken. — possessive noun phrase
Tom eats rice every day. — habitual aspect
Mary is reading a letter. — progressive aspect
They have already left. — perfect aspect
I had finished before you arrived. — past perfect + temporal clause
We will meet tomorrow. — future time
She used to live near the river. — past habitual
He was still sleeping when I called. — past progressive + interruption
I have been waiting for two hours. — perfect progressive + duration
The bread was eaten by the birds. — passive voice
The window got broken during the storm. — result passive / accidental event
Do you know the answer? — yes/no question
Who broke the vase? — subject question
Whom did Mary invite? — object question
Where are you going? — question with motion verb
Why didn’t Tom come? — negative wh-question
Mary asked whether we were ready. — embedded yes/no question
I don’t know what he wants. — embedded wh-clause
Close the door. — imperative
Don’t touch that knife. — negative imperative
Let’s leave before sunset. — hortative / first-person plural command
If it rains, we will stay home. — real conditional
If I had known, I would have helped. — counterfactual past conditional
Although Tom was tired, he kept working. — concession
Because Mary was hungry, she bought some bread. — causal clause
I left before the children woke up. — temporal subordination
After washing his hands, Tom sat down. — non-finite clause / same subject
The man who lives next door is a musician. — subject relative clause
The book that I borrowed is missing. — object relative clause
The woman whose son called me is here. — possessive relative clause
What you said surprised everyone. — headless/free relative
Tom saw himself in the mirror. — reflexive pronoun
Tom and Mary blamed each other. — reciprocal pronoun
I gave my friend her keys. — pronoun gender + indirect object
Nobody saw anything. — negative quantification
Every student read a different book. — universal quantifier + distributivity
Some children like both cats and dogs. — indefinite plural + coordination
Only Mary understood the joke. — focus particle
Even Tom understood the joke. — scalar focus particle
This box is heavier than that one. — comparison
Mary is the tallest person in the room. — superlative
Of course I subjected it to my own scrutiny before posting it here... it just happened not to need much further editing this time.
Hey! Nice list! I'm sure it contains a very large portion of important aspects of English grammar. If somebody would like to tackle this in a research-grounded way at some point, perhaps the following reference might be of value. This paper comes with a collection of all sorts of English ungrammaticality:
Sprouse, Jon, Carson T. Schütze, & Diogo Almeida. 2013. A comparison of informal and formal acceptability judgments using a random sample from Linguistic Inquiry 2001-2010. Lingua 134: 219-248.
Jon Sprouse provides an xlsx with a list of example sentences here (under Journal Articles): https://www.jonsprouse.com/research.html (control+f for "formal acceptability" and download the materials spreadsheet)
Each ungrammatical sentence has a grammatical counterpart, so I think that means that all grammatical aspects listed in the spreadsheet have a sentence that is grammatical according to that aspect.
I used it for my master's thesis back in early 2023, when ChatGPT was brand new and we were wondering if it would be able to a. tell us whether a given sentence is grammatical or not, b. repair it and c. explain why it was ungrammatical.
The conclusion was that a. went quite well, b. went alright, and c. it did quite badly - just like humans.
Thanks for this!
It seems I largely use it for the right purposes, then... other than this list, I mainly use it to check if my sentences are grammatical before I put them up here.
I am currently speaking with some native speakers, and Quechua is not a single language, but rather a collection of dialects. In particular, the linguistic differences are sometimes so pronounced that speakers of a certain dialect might not understand those speaking another. Southern Quechua (known natively as urin qichwa) is by far the most widespread and spoken variety within the Quechua language family. I am currently contributing sentences in Cusco-Collao Quechua, which is a Southern Quechua variety. Southern Quechua (especially the Cusco variety or the literary standard) is usually the recommended variety for anyone wishing to start learning the language. I was wondering: wouldn't it be better to separate Quechua into 'Quechua (Southern)' and 'Quechua (dialectal)'? This way, we could ensure greater cohesion within the sentence corpus. From what I have seen here, a large part of the Quechua on this site is Southern.
Any opinions on this? I personally believe that separating Southern Quechua (from cusco) 🇵🇪 from Kichwa of Ecuador 🇪🇨 from all the other variations would be a great improvement. As I said, the cusco variation is the most standardized one and the one we should probably invest the most effort on
Hello,
I agree with you. For sure Tatoeba should implement a separation of such varieties as they differ a lot from each other. I don't speak Quechua, but admire the beauty of the indigenous languages in our region of Latin America. Each language deserves respect and recognition.
It would only makes sense to split up Quechua if someone were intending to contribute in some variety other than Southern. Even in that case, I suspect that "Quechua (dialectal)" would not be the best name for that variety.
That's true, but the issue is that right now in the quechua tag I see a mix of Quechua sentences from cusco, Kichwa of Ecuador and variations like Quechua from Bolivia. I believe this adds noise to the dataset, it would be important to separate these already existing examples now that there are just a few, in my opinion. Maybe we could create:
- Southern Quechua
- Kichwa of Ecuador (optional)
- Quechua (family)
Or the best approach could be including a tagging feature
Advanced contributors can add tags. If you want to apply to become an advanced contributor, please see the page "How to Become an Advanced Contributor" ( https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...d-contributors ). In the meantime, you can add comments indicating how you think individual sentences should be tagged.
I would suggest "Ecuadorean Kichwa" rather than "Kichwa of Ecuador". I would also try to use more specific tags than "Quechua (family)".
Perhaps (as a first step) you could create lists in order to keep the different varieties apart, e.g.:
https://tatoeba.org/en/sentences_lists/show/174958
https://tatoeba.org/en/sentences_lists/show/174959
Because classifying language is hard work and the Tatoeba project has low ressources, it strictly follows the ISO 639-3 language classification operated by the SIL. This classification has a concept of macrolanguage [1] and Quechua happens to be one [2].
Actually, Tatoeba should not be treating macrolanguages as individual languages because it leads to the kind of issues you are describing. This problem also affects other language families on Tatoeba and we have already identified it [2] but it is yet to be resolved.
Tatoeba is a volunteer-based project, so nothing will happen unless people affected by/interested in this particular issue proactively help. To people who want to help: you can use tags to identify Quechuan languages, as AlanF_US suggested. As for the tag names, you can use the names or ISO codes listed in [2]. You can also open an new issue on GitHub [4] specifically for transitioning sentences in Quechuan languages [que] into each individual language. Ideally we need all Quechuan sentences to be properly tagged, or at least to know what member is using what language. We also need to decide on a language icon for each Quechuan language (maybe the current flag + iso code on the side could do).
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I..._macrolanguage
[2] https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/que
[3] https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/1673
[4] https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2
By the way, Tatoeba also supports the Aymara [aym] language. I am mentioning it because Aymara uses a similar flag, so I guess it is somehow related to Quechuan. Aymara is also a macrolanguage: https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/aym so same problem, except Tatoeba only has 13 sentences in Aymara, so probably easier to solve.
Whatever way we find I would like for the variations to be included in the downloaded file, because it is necessary to train / test AI models for example
The Downloads page allows you to download tags in addition to sentences, links, and other data. You could use tags to separate the sentences on your side.
Based on comment by user Killari we can infer he/she was contributing in a dialect from Perù. (see comment #6166099 ) Most likely from Cusco.
User eeyinn states in his account to be contributing in Kichwa, Otavalo Kichwa (commonly classified under Imbabura Highland Quichua or Imbabura Quichua) is (qvi)
User Wayramaru was writing in Ayacucho (Chanka) Quechua according to a native speaker I know (quy)
Percentage of sentences (Quechua) by user:
User | Sentences| Percentage
-------------------------------------------------------
marloncori | 203 | 36.78%
Juanpa | 124 | 22.46%
IdiomHunter | 117 | 21.20%
Killari | 23 | 4.17%
Rockaround | 22 | 3.99%
Wayra | 21 | 3.80%
diegohn | 20 | 3.62%
Wayramaru | 9 | 1.63%
eeyinn | 5 | 0.91%
Balamax | 2 | 0.36%
zarisi | 2 | 0.36%
cwil | 1 | 0.18%
wallebot | 1 | 0.18%
amarusunqu | 1 | 0.18%
rdgscratch | 1 | 0.18%
marloncori contributed in Cusco Quechua according to a native speaker. But his writing isn't standard, so that's something to keep in consideration here.
So I did some statistical analysis, Juanpa could be contributing in Kichwa, since he almost never uses the character "q", and uses a lot of "sh" just like eeyinn.
Killari, Wayra, diegohn, Wayramaru, Balamax are probably from Cusco, this goes a bit against the native speaker I know, which suggested Wayramaru might be Chanka, but when asking a Chanka speaker, he strongly suggested it was from Cusco. So Wayramaru is a bit "unknown" but he contributed just 9 phrases so it doesn't really matter.
I have to check this data and look better into Rockaround and marloncori, but the native speaker I talked to (from Cusco) says to recognize marloncori as a variation of Cusco so that's to remember.
I answered to a comment on a sentence before reading the wall. Copying it here.
I did not create any sentence as I do not have a sufficient command of the language. The specific ones were taken from open documents like the human right declaration, while I had two sources for the generic ones: my Quechua lesson books (purchased in Peru) and a Peruvian program that was giving news in Quechua.
I have not done that for any other language, but wanted to help expanding the very limited Quechua corpus. I remember trying to be consistent between the pentaphonic and the triphonic versions, but did not consider local dialects.
I do not object to any modification, recategorization or even deletion if one or several of these sentences were not correct.
Do you remember if you bought these books near Ayacucho/Huancavelica/Apurímac or near Puno/Arequipa/Cusco?
You took me on a trip down memory lane just now!
- The program was Ñuqanchik
- The educative resources were the online book of the PUCP (quechua chanca) and another set of physical books that I can't remember right now. I can check at the end of the week. From memory, I bought them in Lima.
Is this the book you are talking about?
https://textos.pucp.edu.pe/pdf/1707.pdf
It's great to see this initiative. I have basic knowledge of Ayacucho Quechua and Ecuadorean Kichwa and I can confirm that Juanpa and Eeyinn write Ecuadorean Kichwa. They both use the modern spelling that the Ecuadorean government has adopted as well. I don't think any other accounts use Ecuadorean Kichwa, I was in contact with @eeyinn a while ago and he told me this:
"I think generally breaking down into Quechua 1 (nuna simi), 2-a&b (runa shimi), and 2-c (runa simi) would be a good starting point.
If you could infer that I write in Otavaleño, you can probably sort the little bit of Quechua on here yourself, but I´ve developed an ear for at least these three general categories and would be happy to lend a hand.
Let me know if I can help."
Sadly, this was right at the time when I started my first full-time job, and I never managed to follow up on this. I think it's high time that Quechua on Tatoeba is split into at least the a few very distinct varieties that see some official use. I still don't have much time on hands, but let me know what's still needed, maybe I can help somehow!
marloncori | 203 | 36.78% (Cusco Quechua)
Juanpa | 124 | 22.46% (Kichwa)
IdiomHunter | 117 | 21.20% (me)
Killari | 23 | 4.17% (Probably Urin Qichwa)
Rockaround | 22 | 3.99% (copy-pasted from various sources)
Wayra | 21 | 3.80%
diegohn | 20 | 3.62% (mostly sorted into lists)
Wayramaru | 9 | 1.63%
eeyinn | 5 | 0.91% (kichwa)
Balamax | 2 | 0.36%
zarisi | 2 | 0.36% (classical quechua)
cwil | 1 | 0.18%
wallebot | 1 | 0.18% (Urin Qichwa)
amarusunqu | 1 | 0.18% (Chanka Quechua)
rdgscratch | 1 | 0.18%
This is the up to date list, most people have been identified, except for rdgscratch, cwil, Balamax, Wayramaru, and Wayra
This sorting currently accounts for roughly 93,85% of all quechua sentences on this site.
See more on GitHub: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/3317
Question: Zin nr. 13972744 I translate from Turkish in Dutch. In Turkish it can be he or she. You cannot see the difference. But if the original sentence is English, it's only he.
If I translate Turkish -> Dutch, do I only look at the right translation between these two languages?
Faq says you in English is one or more, so you use sometimes one, sometimes more.
I guess it's the same here? Feels not right.
We're supposed to translate sentences without looking at that sentence's translations into other languages, meaning the gender in English shouldn't enter into your translation.
Your options are:
1. pick a gender to translate into
2. translate into both genders. we're allowed to translate the same sentence multiple ways
In practice, I find looking at other translations as a reference to be helpful sometimes, but they shouldn't affect your translation's choice of things like gender.
question: if a user stops contributing on the site for years, do his / her sentences eventually become orphan?
No, they will continue to be theirs indefinitely. A profile is usually only set to "inactive" (which enables adoptation of sentences by other users) if they request it, or in justified exceptional cases.
Subject: Request to add Tawallammat Tamajaq [ttq] to Tatoeba
Dear Tatoeba Team,
I would like to request the addition of a new language to Tatoeba. Here are the required details:
Language name: Tawallammat Tamajaq
ISO 639-3 code: ttq
SIL link: https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/ttq
My Tatoeba username: Tamajeq1286
Public sentence list with 100+ sentences: https://tatoeba.org/ar/sentences_lists/show/174933
Tawallammat Tamajaq is a Southern Tuareg language with ~1.3 million speakers in Niger, Mali, and Nigeria. The list contains 100+ original sentences, not duplicates, and follows the standard Latin orthography with Ǝ ɣ š.
Thank you for your support in preserving and promoting this language.
Best regards,
Tamajeq1286
Further supporting information for adding Tawallammat Tamajaq [ttq]:
To demonstrate the digital readiness and active support for this language, please note that there is already a substantial contribution on Glosbe, with over 250,000 translated entries spanning Arabic, English, and French. Please note that these are recent contributions, so they might not be fully reflected in Glosbe's public statistics yet:
- Tamajaq to Arabic: https://glosbe.com
- Tamajaq to English: https://glosbe.com
- Tamajaq to French: https://glosbe.com
Additionally, an electronic dictionary for Tamajaq is fully available. We can actively leverage this resource as a reference to contribute, verify, and expand high-quality sentence pairs directly on Tatoeba once the language is approved.
Thank you for considering this request!
Dear Tatoeba Team,Following up on my language request for Tawallammat Tamajeq [ttq], I would like to inform you that I have a clean corpus of over 7,000 parallel sentences ready for import.These sentences were previously contributed by me to Glosbe under my official profile and platform (Tamajeq.com). Since I am the original author and creator of this data, there are no copyright issues, and the corpus fully complies with Tatoeba's CC-BY licensing terms.Once the language code is activated, I can provide the dataset in the required CSV/TXT format for a developer mass-import. Thank you!"
Inclusion of Tawallammat Tamajeq can be tracked on https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/3312
As for the dataset, you can submit it to team@tatoeba.org or open a new issue on Github with the file attached.
Dear gillux,
I would like to express my deepest gratitude, utmost respect, and sincere appreciation to you and the Tatoeba team for approving my request and opening the GitHub issue so quickly. Your support in preserving and promoting this language means a great deal to our community.
Regarding the language icon for Tawallammat Tamajeq (ttq), I would like to kindly request using the national flag of Niger 🇳🇪 instead of the previous artwork. Since the vast majority of ttq speakers live in Niger and the language is officially recognized there, using the Nigerien flag will make it much easier for our community to identify their language on the website.
Thank you once again for your incredible understanding, support, and flexibility!
Best regards,
Tamajeq1286
I can’t judge on the relevance of either icons, but I’d like to point out the current broader context to help decide.
Tawallammat Tamajeq (ttq) is part of the family of Tuareg languages. The SIL lists 4 of them: https://iso639-3.sil.org/code/ttq
Tatoeba already supports Tahaggart Tamahaq (thv) https://tatoeba.org/sentences/s...ne/indifferent which is another language used in Niger. The two other Tuareg languages Tayart Tamajeq (thz) and Tamasheq (taq) are not yet supported.
Tatoeba also supports the Hausa language (hau). This language uses the flag of Nigeria with letter code on the side. (It used to use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F...usa_people.svg and it is not clear why it was changed).
I previously submitted a cultural symbol, but some local linguists suggested that using the flag of Niger would be more accurate and preferable than simply a cultural symbol, since Tawallammat Tamajaq is a national language in Niger. I also suggest using 🇳🇪. Thank you very much.
If I may insert myself here, I was responsible for the revision of language icons on Tatoeba back in the day. I kept some records of why I chose which icon for which language, but unfortunately, I did not record the rationale for my decision when it comes to changing the icon for Hausa.
If I have to guess now, it might be because I did not have a good enough source attesting the validity of the icon at that time. The flag linked in your message attributes its source to Enciclopaedia Heraldica, which is not a reliable source in my opinion, given its own lack of sourcing and information.
Dear gillux,
I previously informed you that I have a large collection of sentences translated into English, Arabic, and French. Some are available as plain text in my notes, some in spreadsheets, and some I previously converted to PDF. You kindly informed me that I could send them by email. My question now is: what formats should I use to send the sentences to you? I would appreciate a more detailed explanation of the most suitable and fastest method for this task, given the large number of sentences. It's important that you avoid a slow, manual approach while maintaining your established grammar guidelines.
Best regards,
Tamajeq1286
Hello everyone,Thank you for this great initiative and your efforts to support the Tawallammat Tamajaq (ttq) language.To contribute to this discussion and showcase the richness of the language, I would like to share this unique Tawallammat Tamajaq pangram. It contains all the official letters and modified characters used in the standard Tamasheq alphabet:"Xa bălla imuzărăn naŋŋin wər gəmmiyăn âr taggaẓt dəɣ Məššina fəl ad agəẓ ṭǝma n ăɣrǝm han măqqăja săkṣoḍnen."This sentence is a perfect example of the language's structure and can be very useful for testing fonts, character rendering, or language data in the project.Best regards!
Hello Tatoeba team,
I wanna ask you a question. Why does Tatoeba team take too long to accept a new language request?
(1) We have other things keeping us busy. This is especially true for gillux, who adds new languages.
(2) Adding a new language requires substantial effort.
(3) Some new language requests will probably never be fulfilled, so if you're judging by those, the average is going to be thrown off.
The content of this message goes against our rules and was therefore hidden. It is displayed only to admins and to the author of the message.
I'm hiding your comment not for the usual reasons but because you've already made the same comment on GitHub. As gillux said a few hours ago:
https://tatoeba.org/en/wall/sho...#message_42003
Ok I'm very sorry.
Dear gillux,
Is this method suitable for formatting sentences before sending them to you after saving them in a text file via email?
Ma dər tănsed? -> How did you sleep?
Ma dər toled? -> How are you?
Ma tăxallăkăd? -> How are you?
Man-ăwen-nəkk? -> How are you doing?
Tăggoḍăyăm? -> Are you thankful?
Ăytedăn-năwăn ma dər olăn? -> How are your people?
Bărarăn-nəkk ma dər olăn? -> How are your children?
Bărarăn-năm ma dər olăn? -> How are your children?
Kăyy d-ălmăz? -> You and the sunset?
Əgleɣ. -> I am leaving.
Hello, I feel like we are having some communication issues here. I feel a bit overwhelmed by the number of messages you sent lately. If nobody has answered yet, please give it some time instead of sending new messages over and over. For example, you can wait a few days.
There is no need to send the same message on the Wall, on GitHub, and by email. For a more efficient communication, please use a single communication channel, thank you.
The Wall (this present page) is a many-to-many public communication channel with no separation between topics, so if your message is not addressed or relevant to the whole Tatoeba community, consider using a more focused channel such as email or private messages (enveloppe icon) or a GitHub issue, thank you.
Proposal to update the Laz language flag icon
I would like to propose an update to the flag icon used for the Laz language. The current file (lzz.svg) displays a fictional design mistakenly copied from an old Wikipedia asset. Wikipedia editors have since officially marked that asset as a hoax and removed it from factual history pages (archived on Wikimedia Commons as 'File:Fictitious flag of Lazistan Sanjak.svg').
I propose replacing it with the widely recognized cultural flag of Lazona (the name of the Laz land in the Laz language):
- design and emblem: A blue field (Black Sea) with a green stripe (nature) between thin white stripes (peace) at the bottom. A white Borjgali centered in the top blue section, serving as an ancient solar symbol and traditional emblem common to the broader Kartvelian cultural family (Megrelian, Svan, and Georgian).
Why this update is beneficial:
- native verification: It is actively used by language activists and is featured by a native speaker in the educational video on the official Omniglot Laz Language Page (https://omniglot.com/writing/laz.htm) explaining its cultural significance.
- regional acceptance: Because the majority of the Laz population resides within Turkey, the Turkish language query "Lazistan Bayrağı" was specifically checked to scrutinize potential regional sensitivities. The search heavily surfaces this design as a peaceful cultural identifier, confirming that this flag represents organic cultural acceptance by the population itself rather than any political or controversial move. I performed this check explicitly to abide by Tatoeba's strict guidelines regarding neutral, conflict-free language icon choices.
- technical standards: I have built a fully compliant, optimized SVG file. The Borjgali emblem has been preserved to the absolute best detail that a micro size of 30x20 pixels can allow, and the final file footprint is well under 2KB as required.
You can view the live flag artwork proposal directly at this address:
https://itty.bitty.site/#/data:...eha5n/ByHFgGo=
Thank you for your time and support in keeping Tatoeba's language assets accurate!
Hi teto, thank you for bringing this up. Your proposal looks sound and legit, I think we should change the flag. You can keep track of the progress of the flag change on Github: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/3308
Hi gillux,
Thank you for confirming the flag change.
Hi gillux and the community,
Thank you so much for updating the Laz language flag!
I noticed that the Tatoeba page has been updated, and it is wonderful to see this beautiful new flag.