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Wall (6,618 threads)

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Polgar1

20 hours ago

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CK

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DostKaplan

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Shishir

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DostKaplan

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Shishir

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DostKaplan

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CK

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ZegPhig

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DostKaplan DostKaplan yesterday August 8, 2022 at 10:03:28 AM UTC link Permalink

What is Tatoeba's policy regarding translation? I am noticing translations that aren't true to the original English sentence. OK, I admit I didn't take the time to see which sentence came first. But regardless, there is clearly a game of telephone going on where, in the course of translating from one language to another, someone veered from the original meaning and then someone else continued taking the translations from that inaccuracy. Seems to me that some translators prefer to express the translation in street vernacular while others try to stay true to the original. For example, "Let me pay" has an entirely different meaning from "I will pay."

Let me pay = Allow me to pay
I will pay = I am going to pay
Let me pay ≠ I will pay (!!)

https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...+me+pay&to=ron

"Eu voi plăti" means "I will pay," not "Let me pay."

In my opinion, if translations aren't strictly adhering to the original sentence in grammar and meaning, Tatoeba will lose its effectiveness as a language learning tool.

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Thanuir Thanuir yesterday August 8, 2022 at 12:49:44 PM UTC link Permalink

Minun mielestäni kaksi lausetta voi linkittää, jos ainakin toinen niistä on pätevä käännös toiselle, eli on vähintään yksi käyttötarkoitus tai asiayhteys, jossa yhden voisi kääntää toiseksi.

Lauseiden merkitys muuttuu aina ja välttämättä käännettäessä. Se, että käännösten käännökset voivat olla jo varsin erilaisia keskenään, on välttämätön seuraus käsitteestä ja ylipäätänsä siitä, että järjestelmä ei erottele alkuperäisiä lauseita ja käännöksiä, vaan suhde on symmetrinen, eli kaksi lausetta ovat molemmat toistensa käännöksiä ja siten tasa-arvoisia.

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DostKaplan DostKaplan yesterday August 8, 2022 at 1:21:12 PM UTC link Permalink

>>>
Minun mielestäni kaksi lausetta voi linkittää, jos ainakin toinen niistä on pätevä käännös toiselle, eli on vähintään yksi käyttötarkoitus tai asiayhteys, jossa yhden voisi kääntää toiseksi.
<<<

Sure, if there are five sentences already linked to each other, and the 6th sentence is correctly translated in grammar and meaning based on one of those five sentences, we can't fault that 6th sentence. But going back in time when there were only two linked sentences in that group, if sentence 3 was inaccurately translated based on sentence 1, sentence 3 should have been corrected or removed for inaccuracy. I guess since there is no way to effectively police the integrity of the translations from contributors, inaccuracies are left to fester and taint the corpus. Perhaps there should be a policy where if two linked sentences are pointed out to not have the same meaning, then those two sentences and their respective chain of subsequent translations should be unlinked.

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Thanuir Thanuir yesterday August 8, 2022 at 1:34:35 PM UTC link Permalink

Jos lauseet ovat linkitettyjä, mutta eivät vastaa toisiaan, linkityksen voi poistaa.

Käytän tässä yleensä harkintaa: jos lauseet ovat lähellä toisiaan ja parempaa käännöstä ei ole, annan linkin yleensä pysyä; jos taas tarkka käännös on olemassa ja linkitetty epätarkan lisäksi, saatan katkaista epätarkemman linkin.

DostKaplan DostKaplan yesterday August 8, 2022 at 2:05:07 PM UTC link Permalink

Here's another example of inaccurate translations being linked together. Clearly the sentence that doesn't belong in this cluster is "I'm not allowed to talk" and should be unlinked.

ron Nu pot să vorbesc.
eng I can't talk.
eng I can't speak.
tur Konuşamam.
ara لا أستطيع الكلام
eng I cannot speak.
eng I can't say.
eng I'm not allowed to talk.
tur Konuşamıyorum.

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ZegPhig ZegPhig yesterday, edited yesterday August 8, 2022 at 2:28:10 PM UTC, edited August 8, 2022 at 3:14:09 PM UTC link Permalink

DostKaplan, In this case (Eu voi plăti) you can just ignore that. Gray color means that translation is translation of translation. It means, these variants aren't confirmed.

You can read about it here: https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...tions-in-grey?

The sentence «Nu pot să vorbesc» is unlinked. It was linked never with «I'm not allowed to talk». In this case it's gray also

ZegPhig ZegPhig yesterday, edited yesterday August 8, 2022 at 2:49:28 PM UTC, edited August 8, 2022 at 3:09:50 PM UTC link Permalink

See:
The sentence «Eu voi plăti» has Japanese translation which is blue and it mean that Japanese translation is confirmed and correct. Japenese sentence have two English translations: "I'll pay." and "Let me pay.". For Japanese both are correct, but for Romanian only one of them, therefore Tatoeba users confirmed only correct translation. Therefore "I'll pay." is blue and "Let me pay." is gray under Romanian sentence.

CK CK yesterday August 8, 2022 at 5:13:49 PM UTC link Permalink

Of this series of sentences you mention, these are the only directly-linked translations. The others are translations of translations.

ron
Nu pot să vorbesc.
https://tatoeba.org/en/sentences/show/5676528

deu
Ich kann nicht sprechen.
eng
I can't talk.
eng
I can't speak.
epo
Mi ne povas paroli.
fra
Je ne peux pas parler.
nds
Ik kann nich snacken.
nld
Ik kan niet spreken.
por
Não posso falar.
spa
No puedo hablar.
tur
Konuşamam.

As long as this Romanian sentence can be correctly translated by all the directly-linked sentences, then there is no problem.

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DostKaplan DostKaplan yesterday, edited yesterday August 8, 2022 at 6:14:09 PM UTC, edited August 8, 2022 at 6:16:19 PM UTC link Permalink

@CK
I guess I'm still not getting it. Here I am, just trying to see translations in Romanian for the English phrase "Not allowed to" (with quotes).

https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...d+to%22&to=ron

The first result in the response shows:

eng I'm not allowed to talk.
ron Nu pot să vorbesc.

...which is clearly inaccurate. Honestly I think it should be unlinked. There's no redeeming reason to keep it. The two sentences clearly don't have the same meaning. Someone else commented that translations that are blue (blue arrow) are confirmed, and those that are grey are not (this particular Romanian translation is grey). To be honest, I've never noticed the color differences nor did I know what they meant. Perhaps grey sentences shouldn't be included in the results __by default__. Include only if the user indicates so in the advanced search.

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Shishir Shishir yesterday August 8, 2022 at 6:39:12 PM UTC link Permalink

If you go to "translations -> limit to sentences in: Romanian, Link: direct" it should work as you want it to.

https://tatoeba.org/es/sentence...roved=no&user=

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DostKaplan DostKaplan yesterday August 8, 2022 at 7:57:10 PM UTC link Permalink

@Shishir

Is there a way to set it as a permanent preference?

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Shishir Shishir yesterday August 8, 2022 at 8:19:25 PM UTC link Permalink

I just saw there's the option to "create a search template" in the advanced search, maybe that could help? I admit I didn't even know it existed so I can't be of much help. If someone has experience with it or knows how it works I'd be interested to know, too.

https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...roved=no&user=

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DostKaplan DostKaplan yesterday August 8, 2022 at 11:44:34 PM UTC link Permalink

@Shishir

Not exactly sure how useful it is. In particular, the template doesn't have a "Translations <limited> to sentences" dropdown.

There should be a profile-level set of preferences for all searches in all languages.

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CK CK yesterday, edited yesterday August 9, 2022 at 3:02:01 AM UTC, edited August 9, 2022 at 5:51:36 AM UTC link Permalink

Try this.

https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...roved=no&user=

Just click the "search" button without entering any search keywords to get Romanian-English pairs.

Or if you don't really care whether the Romanian is owned by a (self-proclaimed) native speaker, then use this template.

https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...roved=no&user=

Polgar1 Polgar1 20 hours ago August 9, 2022 at 11:44:39 AM UTC link Permalink

On another note: I absolutely disagree "Nu pot să vorbesc" and "I'm not allowed to talk" should be unlinked. It's a completely sensible translation. Of course languages don't match one-to-one but Tatoeba isn't about syntactic transformations anyway. It's about actually legitimate alternatives for a given language.

CK CK 2 days ago August 8, 2022 at 6:53:11 AM UTC link Permalink

jpn
[#9472440] 日本では、八月八日はヒゲの日です。
eng
[#9673010] The eighth of August is Beard Day in Japan.
deu
[#9672988] In Japan ist der 8.8. der „Tag des Bartes“.
ber
[#9916106] Ass n 8 Ɣuct d Ass n Tamart deg Japun.

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small_snow small_snow yesterday August 8, 2022 at 8:39:49 AM UTC link Permalink

🥸

CK CK 3 days ago August 6, 2022 at 10:13:01 AM UTC link Permalink

🍎 Tatoeba.org Native Speakers with Native Language Sentences

http://bit.ly/nativespeakers

Find native speakers of languages you are studying and get links to their native language sentences.

Updated: 2022-08.06

ecorralest101 ecorralest101 4 days ago August 5, 2022 at 3:08:45 PM UTC link Permalink

Hello, folks!

I have a question. I have noticed that some languages like Sranantongo which is spoken in Suriname, have only very few sentences. Is there any possibility that you guys request the organization Translators without borders to make contributions or translate into this language in specific?

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lbdx lbdx 4 days ago August 6, 2022 at 6:37:28 AM UTC link Permalink

As TWB is a humanitarian organization, it focuses on the languages spoken in the crisis zones where it operates. When I contacted TWB last April to ask if we could import the Gamayun Kits into Tatoeba, they had no plans to extend them to other languages. And if they change their mind, I think they will prefer to use their usual Translation Mangement System.

5 days ago August 4, 2022 at 3:11:13 PM UTC link Permalink
warning

The content of this message goes against our rules and was therefore hidden. It is displayed only to admins and to the author of the message.

CK CK 6 days ago August 4, 2022 at 4:39:58 AM UTC link Permalink

🍎 Stats - Sentences per Language - 2022-08-04 compared with one year ago

http://tatoeba.ueuo.com/stats-2...languages.html

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CK CK 6 days ago August 4, 2022 at 6:27:02 AM UTC link Permalink

🍎 Stats - Sentences with Audio - 2022-08-04 compared with one year ago

http://tatoeba.ueuo.com/stats-2...-04-audio.html

sharptoothed sharptoothed 10 days ago July 31, 2022 at 7:13:28 AM UTC link Permalink

** Stats & Graphs **

Tatoeba Stats, Graphs & Charts have been updated:
https://tatoeba.j-langtools.com/allstats/

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fjay69 fjay69 9 days ago July 31, 2022 at 10:12:07 AM UTC link Permalink

Спасибо!

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sharptoothed sharptoothed 9 days ago July 31, 2022 at 9:08:47 PM UTC link Permalink

Не за что. :-)

CK CK June 6, 2022, edited June 6, 2022 June 6, 2022 at 8:09:34 AM UTC, edited June 6, 2022 at 8:09:53 AM UTC link Permalink

🍎 Sentences with 70 or More Links

http://tatoeba.ueuo.com/lotsoflinks.html

I created this just for fun, and thought some of you might be interested.

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nipbud nipbud June 6, 2022 June 6, 2022 at 1:18:42 PM UTC link Permalink

What the hell is that Swedish sentence. That Hungarian guy is insane (not in a bad way)

Also, cool

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Cabo Cabo 9 days ago, edited 9 days ago July 31, 2022 at 4:13:11 PM UTC, edited July 31, 2022 at 4:15:21 PM UTC link Permalink

Feel free to add more translations to it. It has no Icelandic or Russian translations yet.
Check up this sentence, too: #8315175

CK CK 10 days ago July 31, 2022 at 12:04:52 AM UTC link Permalink

🍎 Link Counts 2022-07-30

100 or more links = 169
50 or more links = 1,842
25 or more links = 10,474
20 or more links = 40,765
15 or more links = 91,988
10 or more links = 255,671
9 or more links = 326,627
8 or more links = 422,658
7 or more links = 557,945
6 or more links = 753,609
5 or more links = 1,050,043
1 or more links = 9,029,194

Note that some of these with high counts have multiple alternative translations into just a few languages

If you are interested, you can download the following file with the sentence IDs and the counts for all sentences that have links.

http://study.aitech.ac.jp/link_...2022-07-30.zip (22MB)

sentence_ID + TAB + count

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DJ_Saidez DJ_Saidez 10 days ago, edited 10 days ago July 31, 2022 at 2:43:42 AM UTC, edited July 31, 2022 at 2:43:48 AM UTC link Permalink

Is this direct or also indirect links?

CK CK 10 days ago July 30, 2022 at 8:50:10 AM UTC link Permalink

🍎 Stats - 2022-07-30 - Native Speakers with Contributions

http://tatoeba.ueuo.com/stats-2022-07-30.html

Find sentences by native speakers of the languages you are studying.