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Wall (6,773 threads)

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Before asking a question, make sure to read the FAQ.

We aim to maintain a healthy atmosphere for civilized discussions. Please read our rules against bad behavior.

Latest messages subdirectory_arrow_right

shekitten

an hour ago

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Pfirsichbaeumchen

2 hours ago

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Amzir

2 hours ago

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Amzir

2 hours ago

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Pfirsichbaeumchen

2 hours ago

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Amzir

2 hours ago

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Amzir

2 hours ago

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Amzir

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mhr

14 hours ago

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small_snow

18 hours ago

deniko deniko yesterday June 6, 2023 at 8:20:12 AM UTC link Permalink

There was a discussion where someone pointed out that shekitten had suspended her account, to which I replied:

"I don't think you can suspend your own account. That was probably done by the admins for some reason."

My message, as well as the original poster's message, was hidden with the following note:

"The content of this message goes against our rules and was therefore hidden. It is displayed only to admins and to the author of the message."

The thread itself:

https://tatoeba.org/en/wall/sho...#message_39897

I can't really see other messages in this thread now, that's why I can quote only my post.

I re-read the rules, and I don't quite understand what rules were the messages against. Is it possible to get some explanation, please?

shekitten is a quality contributor, can she be unsuspended?

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PaulP PaulP yesterday June 6, 2023 at 12:07:45 PM UTC link Permalink

Also in my humble opinion Shekitten is a quality contributor. I never noticed the slightest reason to ban her.

yesterday June 6, 2023 at 12:15:17 PM UTC link Permalink
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The content of this message goes against our rules and was therefore hidden. It is displayed only to admins and to the author of the message.

Cabo Cabo yesterday, edited yesterday June 6, 2023 at 1:19:43 PM UTC, edited June 6, 2023 at 1:20:23 PM UTC link Permalink

Shekitten has some quite extremist sentences. I don't know who banned 'them' and who can ban wall messages. It's a bit upsetting seeing a whole thread banned.
Still, if shekitten did nothing wrong, will be unbanned.

Pfirsichbaeumchen Pfirsichbaeumchen 22 hours ago, edited 22 hours ago June 6, 2023 at 9:08:44 PM UTC, edited June 6, 2023 at 9:40:57 PM UTC link Permalink

Everyone in this thread or the hidden one will receive a private message from us. If anyone else has any questions, then please contact us privately. Here's the link: https://tatoeba.org/private_mes...TatoebaAdmins.

small_snow small_snow 18 hours ago, edited 18 hours ago June 7, 2023 at 1:10:31 AM UTC, edited June 7, 2023 at 1:10:47 AM UTC link Permalink

Oops. Is she suspended? I don't know what happened, but I miss her. I wonder how long will her suspension last. How can she come back?

I left a comment because I hope she will come back soon. Thank you.

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mhr mhr 14 hours ago June 7, 2023 at 5:38:11 AM UTC link Permalink

I hope so, too.

shekitten shekitten an hour ago June 7, 2023 at 6:47:36 PM UTC link Permalink

I'm unsuspended. At some point I may explain the series of misunderstandings on my part that led to this, but for now I'm just really touched by all the support I've received in the last few days and glad to be back.

Amzir Amzir 2 hours ago June 7, 2023 at 5:28:52 PM UTC link Permalink

Hey I got a question,

How can I delete a scentence? I accedently wrote a scentence under the wrong one.

The scentence in question: Sentence #11827419

If I can't delete it, can someone else delete it for me? Thanks a lot!

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Pfirsichbaeumchen Pfirsichbaeumchen 2 hours ago June 7, 2023 at 5:38:31 PM UTC link Permalink

You can't delete it yourself, but you can edit it to make it match the sentence you linked it to. This is often preferable to deleting. All you have to do is click on the pencil icon.

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Amzir Amzir 2 hours ago June 7, 2023 at 5:43:18 PM UTC link Permalink

Alright, thank you!

Amzir Amzir 2 hours ago June 7, 2023 at 5:47:00 PM UTC link Permalink

There is an issue, I had written under 2 scentences "Safi!". 1 was under the correct one, the other wasn't. If I change 1, both get changed. I assume they are linked and I'm not able to unlink the word. Could you do it for me? Thanks!

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Pfirsichbaeumchen Pfirsichbaeumchen 2 hours ago June 7, 2023 at 5:53:28 PM UTC link Permalink

These kinds of issues can be discussed in the comment section of each individual sentence. I've answered here: https://tatoeba.org/sentences/show/11827419. ๐Ÿ™‚

Amzir Amzir yesterday, edited yesterday June 6, 2023 at 6:47:36 PM UTC, edited June 6, 2023 at 6:48:29 PM UTC link Permalink

Hey does anyone know who I can reach out to, to request a name change of the "Tarifit" language. The name of our language is spelled "Tarifiyt" with the "Y".

Very important book on Tarifiyt is this one: https://www.universiteitleiden....arifiyt-berber

They refer to it as "Tarifiyt" too, also the wikipage on "Tarifit" says it's "Tarifiyt". Not that that wikipage is very good since it holds some errors.

I also want to request to change the current flag to the Riffian flag since it's specific to our region and is the flag of our Rif Republic state which lived for 5 years. The current flag on Tarifiyt is the general flag for Imazighen in whole NA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F...of_the_Rif.svg

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Pfirsichbaeumchen Pfirsichbaeumchen 23 hours ago, edited 20 hours ago June 6, 2023 at 8:49:29 PM UTC, edited June 6, 2023 at 11:54:01 PM UTC link Permalink

Hi, Amzir.

Welcome to Tatoeba and thanks for adding sentences in Tarifiyt.

The Wall is a good place to make such a request. However, it will require some research on our part. The lemma in Wikipedia is "Tarifit" (without the y), but other names such as "Tmazight", "Tarifit Berber", and "Riffian" are given. It is mentioned that speakers may refer to it as "Tarifiyt", as you say, to differentiate it from other varieties. ISO 639-3 lists it as Tarifit (rif), and that's probably the reason it appears in this form on Tatoeba.

However, this only concerns English. It is possible to translate the Tatoeba user interface into other languages on Transifex. This includes Tarifiyt, and especially the name of the language is translatable.

As for the flag, it was a rather difficult process that led to the current compromise of having the flag of the Amazigh people along with the various language codes. I'm afraid it's not likely this will be touched again. You can change the flag individually just for yourself if you use Firefox. There is an addon called Stylish that lets you customise the user interface, including flags.

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doemaar14 doemaar14 20 hours ago June 6, 2023 at 11:48:03 PM UTC link Permalink

Welcome to Tatoeba.
Many years ago it was me who requested for the language to be added as it didn't exist yet on Tatoeba, under the name ''Tarifit'' . ''Tarifit'' is simply what the language is called in English. In French it's ''rifain'', in Spanish it's ''rifeño'' or ''tarifit'' , etc. So @Pfirsichbaeumchen don't waste your time. Your first impressions were correct.

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Pfirsichbaeumchen Pfirsichbaeumchen 20 hours ago, edited 19 hours ago June 6, 2023 at 11:52:01 PM UTC, edited June 6, 2023 at 11:59:21 PM UTC link Permalink

Thank you. I did notice you owned some sentences in Tarifit/Tarifiyt. ๐Ÿ™‚

Amzir Amzir 2 hours ago, edited 2 hours ago June 7, 2023 at 5:12:28 PM UTC, edited June 7, 2023 at 5:14:07 PM UTC link Permalink

Tanmirt I anzuf inek.
I checked the English dictionary real quick and I can't find any term for Irifiyen in the dictionary. Could you maybe share a link or something? I did found the term Rifain in a French dictionary, Rifeño in the Spanish dictionary and Riffijn in the Dutch dictionary.

Edit:
Nvm I found the term Riffian in the English dictionary but where do you find Tarifit?

Amzir Amzir 2 hours ago June 7, 2023 at 5:08:00 PM UTC link Permalink

Thank you for your welcome and yes I understand, I do have a question. What made the process that led for the current comprises so difficult?

Rifians have had their flag Since Rif Republic (1921) way before the Amazigh flag was designed (1970) and made official (1997. It would make sense if the Rifian flag would have been chosen since it specifies our region / language.

"On September 18, 1921, inhabitants of the Rif joined together to shield their region from Spanish colonialism. They chose to adopt a flag to represent the region in their first attempt to liberate Morocco from the iron hand of colonialism."

Btw, I'm not saying to ask again to change the flag since you already said it's not likely it gets touched again. I'm just saying this comment to inform and get informed so I hope this msg doesn't get misunderstood.

Gabe_the_cat Gabe_the_cat yesterday, edited yesterday June 6, 2023 at 3:46:35 PM UTC, edited June 6, 2023 at 3:47:49 PM UTC link Permalink

Anyone knows a way to learn a language apart from Apps & websites?

I normally learn through apps such as DROPS or Duolingo, and websites such as Wikibooks and Wikiversity. But they don't have all of the languages from Tatoeba (ex.: Sumerian), so, where can i learn all languages?

(If in Tatoeba there is a language learning service, then that's great, i will go & use it)

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Thanuir Thanuir yesterday June 6, 2023 at 4:28:58 PM UTC link Permalink

Traditionally people have:

1. Talked with other people.
2. Used textbooks.
3. Taken courses at various country-dependent institutes, like schools and universities.

With a dead language, your best bet is to check universities that teach linguistics, ancient cultures or maybe theology.

Cabo Cabo yesterday, edited yesterday June 6, 2023 at 6:14:03 PM UTC, edited June 6, 2023 at 7:11:45 PM UTC link Permalink

Drops and duolingo are just for basic, memrise has some simple courses, too, clozemaster unfortunately is high priced, but then you can still use chatgpt free, and it can create some stories in different languages (maybe not familiar with sumerian, probably don't speak tamazight either), what can be first a better alternative to lingQ, but if you want to do a lot of similar reading in different languages, you won't mind lingQ, then you can find some tales, simple language materials in listening book form with text on youtube or on other sites, then you can find some language exchange partners around the world, there are some free sites, some are a bit mixed-up with 'I cry for have a partner' and 'I genuinely want to learn languages'. Then you have some sites where you can download language books as pdfs. And finally, you can travel abroad and try to learn the language that way.

Sumerian? really? it has nice characters, but you can't really learn that anywhere, just some specific places in university level surroundings
If you in love with the characters, just check out some asian languages, or middle eastern, maybe learn the runic alphabet for fun

Gabe_the_cat Gabe_the_cat 2 days ago, edited 2 days ago June 5, 2023 at 7:50:21 PM UTC, edited June 5, 2023 at 7:51:26 PM UTC link Permalink

Hi, I am new here, and I really need you guys to tell me a guide to Tatoeba and some tips n' tricks for some languages

I know this seems odd, but it's IMPORTANT, alright?

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CK CK yesterday June 5, 2023 at 8:37:32 PM UTC link Permalink

Rules and Guidelines
https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...how/guidelines

Quick Start Guide
https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...ow/quick-start

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Gabe_the_cat Gabe_the_cat yesterday June 6, 2023 at 6:14:15 AM UTC link Permalink

Thamksss

7 days ago May 31, 2023 at 7:21:17 PM UTC link Permalink
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The content of this message goes against our rules and was therefore hidden. It is displayed only to admins and to the author of the message.

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5 days ago June 2, 2023 at 3:47:01 PM UTC link Permalink
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3 days ago June 3, 2023 at 8:09:35 PM UTC link Permalink
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The content of this message goes against our rules and was therefore hidden. It is displayed only to admins and to the author of the message.

CK CK 7 days ago May 31, 2023 at 5:01:12 PM UTC link Permalink

๐ŸŽ English Sentences 027 from the Tatoeba Corpus (200 Sentences in 23 minutes) Listen and Repeat

https://youtu.be/KD20bzqvf68

To translate, see https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...how/171455/und

sharptoothed sharptoothed 10 days ago May 28, 2023 at 6:42:06 AM UTC link Permalink

โœนโœน Stats & Graphs โœนโœน

Tatoeba Stats, Graphs & Charts have been updated:
https://tatoeba.j-langtools.com/allstats/

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AlanF_US AlanF_US 10 days ago May 28, 2023 at 2:43:29 PM UTC link Permalink

Thanks, as always.

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sharptoothed sharptoothed 7 days ago May 31, 2023 at 4:21:34 PM UTC link Permalink

My pleasure. :-)

doemaar14 doemaar14 May 1, 2023 May 1, 2023 at 8:28:35 AM UTC link Permalink

Could someone tell @amastan to stop adding so many sentences about Algeria?
14,031 occurrences in English-language sentences, compared to:
'France', 1,001 occurrences,
'India', 381
'China' , 1,296 ,
'America', 1,098 ,
'United States', 1,112
'Japan', 1,734
'Germany', 871

All these countries have bigger populations, and are, dare I say, significantly more recognizable than Algeria.

(While ''French'' does have 13k+ occurrences, almost all of them are only about the language (as opposed to the culture/country), which is spoken by about 100 million people world-wide. ''Spanish'', with 486 million speakers yields only 870 results,)

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Nuel Nuel May 1, 2023 May 1, 2023 at 8:34:59 AM UTC link Permalink

He also seems obsessed with transgender people.

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Teashrock Teashrock May 1, 2023, edited May 1, 2023 May 1, 2023 at 12:36:28 PM UTC, edited May 1, 2023 at 12:36:59 PM UTC link Permalink

Does being obsessed with something go against Tatoeba's rules?

Teashrock Teashrock May 1, 2023 May 1, 2023 at 12:26:22 PM UTC link Permalink

Excuse me, I was just passing by, but does writing sentences about countries other than “recognized” really go against the rules of this website?

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doemaar14 doemaar14 May 1, 2023 May 1, 2023 at 1:57:33 PM UTC link Permalink

As @Nuel pointed out, Tatoeba's own guideline: ''Avoid using the same words, names, topics or patterns over and over again.''
And it's definitely not coincidence: almost all of these 14,000 sentences are from one single user.
Mere happenstance could never result in that many sentences about Algeria. This project should be representative of the entire world, or at the very least of places most people will be familiar with or actually live in (India, USA, China).
Translating on here gets boring/annoying pretty fast when every other sentence is about Algeria, not to mention the fact you have to filter out sentences containing ''Algeria'' each time you download sentences. We could start spamming different countries as a knee-jerk reaction, but that'd be just as bad.

Impersonator Impersonator May 1, 2023 May 1, 2023 at 6:43:35 PM UTC link Permalink

How Algeria is worse than Tom and Mary?

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maaster maaster 18 days ago May 20, 2023 at 4:26:53 AM UTC link Permalink

+1

Yorwba Yorwba May 1, 2023 May 1, 2023 at 7:02:11 PM UTC link Permalink

Everyone here has the same means of contacting Amastan, which is to send a private message. So you can in fact tell him to stop adding so many sentences about Algeria, as can anyone else. Doing so directly in private is also more likely to reach the intended recipient than posting on the wall. (I'll send him a link to this wall post so he has the opportunity to respond.)

But if you're actually hoping for an admin to order Amastan to stop, that's unlikely to happen, since the last time a similar issue came up the verdict was that

> As a general rule, no action will be taken against a contributor based on the sole fact that they are creating new sentences with a name that has been overused.

https://blog.tatoeba.org/2019/0...h-tom-and.html

If you want to avoid English sentences which overuse certain words, you might want to restrict your searches to lbdx's "Pruned English Corpus" list, i.e. https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...ny&sort=random

It's also worth pondering what Amastan is supposed to do instead. After all, telling someone to stop doing something they think is the right thing to do is unlikely to be effective, but convincing them that there's something else they could do that would be even better might work.

As far as I know, Amastan is Algerian, so it is indeed not mere happenstance that he added so many sentences about Algeria, but also not terribly surprising. However, it does seem like many of these sentences could be equally said about pretty much any country, which might be why you consider them boring.

But surely Amastan doesn't want us to think Algeria is boring! So maybe there is room for mutually beneficial cooperation here. Do you think some of the sentences are less boring than others? For example, I think that sentences that are less generic and more specifically about Algeria, like #7811221 "Algeria and Morocco are the only North African nations that recognize Berber as an official language." are a bit more interesting. What do you think?

Maybe Amastan would also be up for creating more sentences that are about Algeria without explicitly stating as much. (In keeping with the old adage that writers should "show, not tell.")

maaster maaster 29 days ago, edited 29 days ago May 9, 2023 at 4:32:02 AM UTC, edited May 9, 2023 at 4:41:44 AM UTC link Permalink

If everyone stop adding almost useless and empty short sentences with the same words over and over again, perhaps, Amastan will also stop acting so.
I think that may be his reaction against Tom- and/or Australia-sentences.

(I still think these sentences are the first reason that the most contributors finish using Tatoeba after translating three (or much more) sentences.)

(It may be just a double standard against Amastan. Am I wrong?)

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lbdx lbdx 29 days ago May 9, 2023 at 6:30:44 AM UTC link Permalink

> It may be just a double standard against Amastan. Am I wrong?

You're right, Amastan isn't the first to stuff his sentences with pervasive words. But he's by far the one who's been producing the most of them lately. Last month, he added 16,000 original English sentences. The other two main English contributors added only 1,000. The figures are available at https://colab.research.google.c...=5&uniqifier=1

Unfortunately, the people who seem to be in charge of the project refuse to see this as a problem. How about a monthly cap on the number of original sentences in one language? 3,000 seems like a reasonable number to me...

As this issue comes up regularly on the wall, I would like the Tatoeba community to comment on this measure. If you think such a cap is appropriate, please post a plus sign in the comments of this post. If you want to show your disapproval, please post a minus.

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lbdx lbdx 29 days ago May 9, 2023 at 6:31:14 AM UTC link Permalink

+

sundown sundown 29 days ago May 9, 2023 at 7:09:57 AM UTC link Permalink

+

ddnktr ddnktr 28 days ago May 9, 2023 at 8:11:32 PM UTC link Permalink

+

Impersonator Impersonator 28 days ago May 10, 2023 at 6:02:12 AM UTC link Permalink

-

Impersonator Impersonator 28 days ago May 10, 2023 at 6:11:39 AM UTC link Permalink

When the corpus is domated by Western names Tom and Mary, everyone is OK with that. But when a non-Western place name Algeria gets used, people want some caps.

This is cultural colonialism, plain and simple.

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sundown sundown 28 days ago, edited 28 days ago May 10, 2023 at 6:33:15 AM UTC, edited May 10, 2023 at 7:35:42 AM UTC link Permalink

You're wrong. "Everyone" is not OK with Tom and Mary ad infinitum.

I still remember when a certain member here was uploading tens of thousands of sentences in one go once a month (using scripts), which is partly why we're lumbered now with Tom and Mary. Above all, it's that sort of behaviour, now being exhibited by another user, that I'd like to see some "caps" on. I wish it had been done years ago.

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Impersonator Impersonator 28 days ago May 10, 2023 at 6:36:52 AM UTC link Permalink

Well, if that gets instituted after Algeria and not after Tom and Mary, that still shows the bias of the community.

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sundown sundown 28 days ago May 10, 2023 at 6:39:10 AM UTC link Permalink

Maybe. But you're still mischaracterising people here. We're not all the same.

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Impersonator Impersonator 28 days ago May 10, 2023 at 6:43:14 AM UTC link Permalink

You're right, I guess.

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sundown sundown 28 days ago, edited 28 days ago May 10, 2023 at 6:53:55 AM UTC, edited May 10, 2023 at 7:13:25 AM UTC link Permalink

That said, though, I personally don't like some users' use of this site to, as they see it, push their agenda.

However, my point in supporting a cap is about *volume*. As I said, I wish it had been done years before this latest user started the deluge. Tatoeba seems to be at the mercy of anyone motivated enough to dominate its contents.

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Impersonator Impersonator 28 days ago May 10, 2023 at 6:59:33 AM UTC link Permalink

> some users' use of this site to, as they see it, push their agenda

I don't believe in "not having an agenda". We all have our views, and the sentences we add necessarily reflect our views. Everyone has an agenda.

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sundown sundown 28 days ago, edited 28 days ago May 10, 2023 at 7:02:21 AM UTC, edited May 10, 2023 at 7:03:19 AM UTC link Permalink

We all have views. That's stating the obvious.

Polgar1 Polgar1 21 days ago May 17, 2023 at 12:26:11 PM UTC link Permalink

There is a difference between "having views" and "having an agenda". Anyway, if you will: my "agenda" is that the only accepted agenda on Tatoeba should be the passion for creating (collecting, in some cases) high-quality linguistic content across the planet.

shekitten shekitten 20 days ago, edited 20 days ago May 18, 2023 at 4:12:21 AM UTC, edited May 18, 2023 at 4:31:28 AM UTC link Permalink

What it looks like to me is that there are two separate issues, and that they've been conflated. I see these two issues as:

1. A single person is adding far more sentences to the English corpus than the next two people combined.

2. People don't like that a lot of this person's sentences are about Algeria. That's too bad. More people should add sentences about their countries and cultures. He's doing nothing wrong by writing about his own, even if a lot of it amounts to political propaganda.

To address 1, I'll echo those who have suggested caps. I think the caps suggested are more than reasonable and would not prevent most users from adding the number of sentences that they are already adding.

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sundown sundown 17 days ago May 21, 2023 at 9:44:00 AM UTC link Permalink

I don't object to sentences about any country, just as I don't object to sentences about any city. As far I'm concerned, some of the best English contributions here are written by non-native speakers. They put to shame my own attempts to write in other languages. I take my hat off to those users. I'm not one of those who discourage non-native speakers from adding English sentences.

What I do object to is sentences being uploaded to the site on an industrial scale. The main priority seems to be to pump out as many sentences as possible – to what purpose, we can only guess – and let the rest of us find and correct the mistakes (a service we provide voluntarily). We all make mistakes, but in this case it's the sheer volume. Whoever you are here – native speaker or non-native speaker, admin, corpus maintainer or whatever – taking this approach is not community-minded.

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shekitten shekitten 17 days ago, edited 17 days ago May 21, 2023 at 1:16:47 PM UTC, edited May 21, 2023 at 1:52:37 PM UTC link Permalink

Did you still have a tab open from three days ago? I got rid of the native part of that post within an hour of making it (and my original comment said non-native contributions were fine, but that the volume of non-native contributions was the problem)

At any rate, the answer seems to be a cap on daily contributions.

shekitten shekitten 12 days ago, edited 12 days ago May 26, 2023 at 3:05:42 PM UTC, edited May 26, 2023 at 3:06:59 PM UTC link Permalink

There are currently 17,183 occurrences of the "wildcard" country "Australia" in the corpus, and 14,651 occurrences of "Algeria." Australia is the best thing to compare Algeria to, rather than Tom and Mary, which are names (and Amastan uses many names in his sentences).

If the cap is instituted once the number of occurrences of Algeria comes to roughly equal that of Australia, will that allay your concerns? It will mean both Algeria and Australia have equally benefited from the pre-cap situation. No one could say that Algeria has been disadvantaged; in fact, one could say that instituting this cap at any point (even now) makes it harder for any country to play catch-up to Algeria.

Disclaimer: I am not an administrator and do not have the power to make offers.

Cabo Cabo 12 days ago, edited 12 days ago May 26, 2023 at 5:56:29 PM UTC, edited May 26, 2023 at 6:31:59 PM UTC link Permalink

It's not the first talk about wildcard words.

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shekitten shekitten 12 days ago, edited 12 days ago May 26, 2023 at 7:47:22 PM UTC, edited May 26, 2023 at 7:47:48 PM UTC link Permalink

The point is Algeria is already almost as well represented in the corpus as Australia - better represented even, proportionally to population. And that it will soon catch up to Australia in raw numbers.

Before Amastan was adding 16,000 new sentences in a month, someone else apparently used to add a similarly high amount, but their contributions were never capped. If we did the cap after Algeria caught up to Australia, you could say that both Algeria and Australia had benefitted equally from the situation before the cap was instituted. I don't know if this is less prejudicial or not; it's an idea.

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Cabo Cabo 11 days ago May 26, 2023 at 8:08:16 PM UTC link Permalink

We were talking about a cap for years now. When finally we will have a cap, that long list will contain 160 thousand sentences, not just 16.

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shekitten shekitten 11 days ago, edited 11 days ago May 26, 2023 at 8:20:48 PM UTC, edited May 26, 2023 at 9:28:06 PM UTC link Permalink

A cap is a limit. I'm talking about a limit on the number of daily contributions.

16,000 sentences by one user in a day is too many. It's not natural. I'm disabled and I don't contribute anywhere near that much, nor has anyone contributed anywhere near that much before without using scripts.

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Thanuir Thanuir 11 days ago May 27, 2023 at 9:32:24 AM UTC link Permalink

Assuming 16 hour workday, that is 1000 sentences per hour, or 17 per minute, or one per 4 seconds. Just for reference. Or one per 2 seconds if only working 8 hours on Tatoeba that day.

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shekitten shekitten 10 days ago May 28, 2023 at 1:37:31 AM UTC link Permalink

My apologies. It's 16,000 a month, not 16,000 a day. I misremembered what I read.

Either way, that is 16 times as much as the people who add the second-most and third-most sentences. That's something we have good reason to want to prevent, for the sake of the future of this site.

But having this discussion in the midst of a discussion asking to limit sentences about Algeria specifically taints this.

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Thanuir Thanuir 10 days ago May 28, 2023 at 5:53:36 AM UTC link Permalink

About 500 a day is much more manageable, even by hand. Thank you for correcting.

Cabo Cabo 11 days ago, edited 11 days ago May 27, 2023 at 11:45:51 AM UTC, edited May 27, 2023 at 1:00:55 PM UTC link Permalink

What 16 thousand sentences a day? Where? I don't see such day.

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shekitten shekitten 10 days ago May 28, 2023 at 1:39:29 AM UTC link Permalink

I misremembered - it was 16,000 a month.

deniko deniko 28 days ago May 10, 2023 at 9:59:47 AM UTC link Permalink

+

Wezel Wezel 20 days ago May 18, 2023 at 3:36:04 PM UTC link Permalink

+

maaster maaster 29 days ago May 9, 2023 at 9:23:52 AM UTC link Permalink

However, I don't like that great amount of sentences with the word "Algeria" or with any other country name, either.

Polgar1 Polgar1 21 days ago May 17, 2023 at 12:49:57 PM UTC link Permalink

> I still think these sentences are the first reason that the most contributors finish using Tatoeba after translating three (or much more) sentences.

What is the presumption and what is your statement? Do we have the means to talk about worrying tendencies within contributions to Tatoeba? If so, do you have any evidence supporting this idea that trivial sentences, even in excessive amounts, somehow pose a threat to Tatoeba?

My personal impression is that it is *easy* to find useful sentences and a whole lot of mental cycles are wasted, with little constructivity, over something that isn't even consensual within the community. I can easily agree with a sort of "rate limit" on contributions as a broader measure against bruteforce takeover.

Last but not least... I have no intention to rank the reasons why somebody stops using Tatoeba but you yourself are a dubious example in my opinion, and you should at least think about that before coming up with theories. You seem to fancy far-fetched or downright undecipherable translations and you are very vocal not only against near-literal translations but upon your personal ad-hoc prescriptivism as well.
Since I was rather involved in Tatoeba via Clozemaster, I definitely see a bigger problem in coming across "maasterisms" or your annoying insistence to change translations that I consider plausible and practical because they are apparently not idiomatic enough for you.

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maaster maaster 19 days ago, edited 19 days ago May 19, 2023 at 6:19:39 AM UTC, edited May 19, 2023 at 6:54:32 AM UTC link Permalink

That isn't just a presumption.

Clozemaster is not my business.
It's a voluntary job. I don't do it for other ones' pleasure.
Add much more translations on Tatoeba and read them on Clozemaster.

Perhaps, there're not enough cynical sentences on Tatoeba. You can add some.

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Polgar1 Polgar1 19 days ago May 19, 2023 at 8:13:38 AM UTC link Permalink

If it's not a presumption, then maybe argue for it, or show evidence.

Also, it's kind of a strawman to talk about someone's pleasure when I said you are actively causing DISpleasure, both to users with your trademark undecipherable sentences, and to contributors with the trademark prescriptivist gatekeeping over absolutely non-representative personal fixations. This is something you ought to think about, not to deflect.

Cabo Cabo 19 days ago, edited 19 days ago May 19, 2023 at 5:35:45 PM UTC, edited May 19, 2023 at 5:41:34 PM UTC link Permalink

Using clozemaster after the change (now you only can do 30 sentences a day per language (as a free user)), my biggest concern no "maasterism", no "amastanism", but the mood what the sentences create, there are soooo many bad view about the world, sooo many pessimistic sentences, sooo many about death and dying.
I know, I contributed to those. But in the big picture, there are too much of them. It makes me sad. It's a sad collection about sad sentences.
Our creation is what sadeness, anger was inside us.

People probably stop using the site because they are not full of hatred or sadeness.

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Polgar1 Polgar1 18 days ago May 20, 2023 at 8:10:51 AM UTC link Permalink

I also stopped using Clozemaster after that ridiculous restriction but honestly, I can't recall the sentences to be particularly bitter or depressive.

Anyway, it doesn't literally have to be Clozemaster. If you want to learn about a language by taking sentences and their translations, it's an unwanted challenge that somebody makes up odd artsy translations on a regular basis, while also telling others off for translating too literally, or using certain colloquialisms that go against his peculiar view of language protectionism. I have more confidence in my language use than to fall victim for the latter attempts but I think even the attempt is completely off for a project like Tatoeba. And the translations that barely resemble the original sentence have dubious value, the least to say.

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Cabo Cabo 18 days ago, edited 18 days ago May 20, 2023 at 8:21:24 AM UTC, edited May 20, 2023 at 8:23:05 AM UTC link Permalink

It became small pocets of sadeness. When you on a daily basis read something about death, it seems depressive. (not only death, but suicide, suicidal thoughts, marital misbehavement... etc. (when I did 400 sentences a day I didn't recognize such thing, but this way I picked up on it)

maaster maaster 10 days ago, edited 5 days ago May 28, 2023 at 6:42:37 PM UTC, edited June 2, 2023 at 4:32:44 PM UTC link Permalink

I wrote "I think".
Nevertheless, if you had been here in 2016, you could have read supposedly the last comment and opinion of freddy1 about "empty" sentences–before leaving the project.

Ja, meg a kiseva33 vagy a jegaevi is írta errล‘l idล‘közben megváltozott véleményét és abbahagyta az egészet.

nipbud nipbud 19 days ago May 19, 2023 at 12:06:42 PM UTC link Permalink

> Users who participated in the last 200 contributions.
>Amastan: 169

85% of the last 200, he's adding a sentence every 6 seconds, all of them are "Algeria" or "Antonio"…

shekitten shekitten 19 days ago May 19, 2023 at 1:21:52 PM UTC link Permalink

To me the answer to "disproportionate number of sentences about Algeria" is to add more sentences about France, India, China, the U.S., Japan, Germany, Kenya, etc..

Granted, this is hard when someone adds such a volume of sentences that it dwarfs all others, so caps are a good idea

Thanuir Thanuir 18 days ago May 20, 2023 at 9:07:52 AM UTC link Permalink

Aluksi Tatoebassa oli paljon Japania koskevia lauseita.
Jossain vaiheessa alkoi Tom- ja Mary-aalto, samoin kuin ranskan kieli.
Samoin Ziri, Mennad, Sami ja mitä näitä nyt on.
Nyt sitten Algeria.

Toisaalta: tämäkin menee ohi ja uusia aaltoja tulee.

Toisaalta: ilmeisesti tämä aktiivisesti ärsyttää ihmisiä.

Cabo Cabo November 1, 2020, edited November 1, 2020 November 1, 2020 at 11:20:36 AM UTC, edited November 1, 2020 at 11:38:33 AM UTC link Permalink

Is it okay to write 600 sentences in 56 minutes? ("That's a big number, how can I do that" - some asking.) You just copy and paste sentences and write in them all the verb forms...>> (sorry English, Swedish...)
(And, is it useful?) A bit yes but a big no, because we use some conjugated forms of a verb more often, and some conjugated forms just 'sound stupid' (as we Hungarians say) in the same setting.
>> ... or use a bot. (Do not use bots, it's prohibited.)
If you want mass import, contact with the admins.

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Thanuir Thanuir November 1, 2020 November 1, 2020 at 7:16:21 PM UTC link Permalink

Lauseen kääntäminen monella eri tavalla on arvokasta.

Monien samankaltaisten lauseiden lisääminen on arvokkaampaa kuin vain yhden lauseen lisääminen, mutta vähemmän arvokasta kuin monien erilaisten lauseiden lisääminen.

Niinpä, jos lisäät uusia lauseita, lisää mieluummin keskenään erilaisia kuin keskenään samanlaisia.

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Cabo Cabo November 1, 2020 November 1, 2020 at 8:23:57 PM UTC link Permalink

https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...omment-1212303

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Cabo Cabo November 10, 2020 November 10, 2020 at 6:52:36 PM UTC link Permalink

https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...omment-1212303
https://tatoeba.org/eng/user/pr...Yazid_Bouhamam
This person also uses bots. Block the profile.

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maaster maaster November 10, 2020 November 10, 2020 at 7:41:57 PM UTC link Permalink

+1

belkacem77 belkacem77 January 11, 2021 January 11, 2021 at 10:32:14 AM UTC link Permalink

@Cabo this profile is not a bot
https://tatoeba.org/eng/user/pr...Yazid_Bouhamam

The contributors on the kab corpora are identified. We are a team working together on diffrent types of kab sentences. We are creating and sharing content before putting them on Tatoeba. Along with Tatoeba, we are also working on diffrent open projects.

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Cabo Cabo January 11, 2021, edited January 11, 2021 January 11, 2021 at 11:54:46 AM UTC, edited January 11, 2021 at 11:58:12 AM UTC link Permalink

"@Cabo this profile is not a bot"
Where did I write, the profil is a bot?
From my message:"This person also uses bots."
He/she used bots ... or it used bots?
---------------------
If you really a computer engineer, you need to know the difference between informations and data.

"We are creating and sharing content before putting them on Tatoeba. "
Then leave there, don't put your "content" on Tatoeba, it is not the right place for those data.

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belkacem77 belkacem77 January 11, 2021, edited January 11, 2021 January 11, 2021 at 11:58:06 AM UTC, edited January 11, 2021 at 11:58:24 AM UTC link Permalink

@Cabo You seem very angry. Please let this space quiet. I leave the discussion.

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Cabo Cabo January 11, 2021 January 11, 2021 at 12:06:10 PM UTC link Permalink

Near-duplicate generating, bot using, attempts to pollute the corpus in other languages, like Spanish, Hungarian.
This place was quiet before these things.

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Aiji Aiji 10 days ago May 27, 2023 at 11:57:56 PM UTC link Permalink

+1

Cabo Cabo 11 days ago, edited 11 days ago May 27, 2023 at 12:13:50 PM UTC, edited May 27, 2023 at 1:00:36 PM UTC link Permalink

Actually, seems like you can do it, you can write 16000 thousand sentences a day without any consequences, so get into it!