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Selena777's messages on the Wall (total 230)
Thanks, that's intereting.
Saying "European language" I didn't mean pure European, but "something similar to Eupopean language" (opposite Chinese, that was mentioned like an example). Thus, Turkis languages, like Turkish or Tatar, seem to me more close to Indo-European languages than to Japanese or Chinese.
What do you suggest do replace "jn" with?
Sorry, if I misunderstood you )
I thought if you consider your opponent's words "there is no language ideally suited to be lingua franca" as wrong, so you mean that Esperanto is ideally suited for that. I just wanted to say nothing created by people couldn't be ideal. I heard that some people made of Esperanto something like an "idol". But I don't think it's refer to you or a single person here. )
Maybe, you learned it deeper than me.
For me it seems like "broken Italian", but I understand, that is just my perception, cause I knew Italian before Esperanto. It's like for many Russian speakers Ukrainian sounds like "spoiled Russian", though it doesn't mean there is something wrong with Ukrainian. It's only people's perception.
Esperanto is an European language essentially, cause it has been created by an European.
I agree. It's arrangered as an absolutely regular language without any exceptions to make its studing as easy as possible. Due to , it has no that "elegance" and "vivacity", which is created by irregularity, it's rather a tool for communication, than for creating literary masterpieces. Though "simple English", which is actually an internation language, is not suitable for creating masterpices either. It's just have a
Well, how you could deal without plural endings?
Esperanto is not perfect and it can't be perfect or ideal, like all the things, created by people.
It seems, all the sentences have been unlinked by themselves.
Actually, this difference could be too slight to consider it seriously.
Well, I can named at least three people, who are contributing in Russian corpus, but not included in the CK's list. I can't estimate the quality of sentences on their "mother" tongues, but their Russian sentences as good as other member's ones.
For most minor languages of Russia it's almost impossible to find speakers who are not bilingues.
I think you'd rather leave this kind of sentences for beginners. :)
It's not your level of English, I guess.
Also,in my opinion it's not a very good idea to focuse yourself only in translating of English sentences. You can translate such simplest sentences from German or French, it could be more useful for your studing and not so boring, and then link your translations to undirect English translations.
The difficulty of this idea is we can't always definite, what is a "native speaker".
In most cases it's obviously, but not in all cases. Some people stop use their mother tongue actively, since they move in another country.
Also, there is a number of bilingues. When someone actively uses two languages since his/her childhood, he/she can speak both of them naturally. Should we provide a possibility to sign two or even three languages as "native"?
I think, such explanations of the meaning of idioms can be very useful.
Some people tend to translate idioms, which they don't know, literally and it produces rather strange sentences sometimes.
In my opinion, tagging own sentences "OK" doesn't seem as an useful idea... Everyone will do it, so, it will be just wasting of time.
About "objective" evaluating of sentences. I think, when someone learn a certain languages, he/she wants to know common and widespread words and sentences at first. Rare forms and peculiar sentences can be interesting for advance learners. So, for many people (just like me) standard and grammatically correct sentences are the best ones. I don't see something bad or not comfortable for "minorities" if such universal sentences will have an advantage. Those, who want to see rare and peculiar sentences, always can do it.
But generally, I agree with your idea.
I'm agree with much things, you said.
I think all the sentences we can conditionally divided on several categories:
1) Standard sentences, that are used by most native speakers and understood by all native speakers (they included common bookish sentences, common colloquial sentences, common universal (both bookish and colloquial) sentences. In my opinion, this is the most useful part of the corpus for most learners. We can attribute a single sentence (created by a native or a non-native speaker) to that category, if it's grammatically correct and sounds natural for most native speakers (not for only some of them).
2) Grammatically incorrect colloquial forms, widespead among natives (so-called "popular language). Putting these forms, we must point it clear, that they are shouldn't be used for school or university studing.
3) Slang sentences (excluding widespread ones, that can be in the first category).
4) Sentences with dialect words, that is unknown to many native speakers.
5) Archaic sentences.
6) Peculiar sentences, created by a native speaker, who says, he/she uses them in their everyday life, but they sound strange for most other native speakers.
7) Literal translations of foreign sentences. They sound strange, but they can be useful for those, who uses one language to study another language.
8) Unnatural sounding and/or grammatically incorrect sentences, created by non-native speakers, who probably don't have necessary skills in that language. They should be corrected or deleted.
9) Other sentences, created by non-native or even native speakers, there is no consensus among natives about. Many of them consider they as good and natural, and many others don't. We can divide this category in two (created by natives and created by non-natives) if someone thinks it's useful. I can name it "doubtful" sentences, and they shouldn't be included in the first category.
In my opinion, we should let every user to choose, which categories he/she would like to see. By defoult it can be the first category.
I have the similar problem with my Russian sentences. Many of them aren't translated, especially if they are not simplest ones.
I was thinking about adding comments with English translations as well, but now I don't think, it can be very effective. In the other hand, if you add
English translations to your original Finnish sentences, you will get lots of indirect translations quickly. There was an Ukrainian user, who did so, and will get many indirect translations then. But it will not good for an English corpus, as you said.
I suggested to create a special corpus for such non-native English translations, but this idea didn't get a support...
Now I consider an alternative option: to learn some basic Esperanto and translate into it. As I found out, the Esperanto corpus is very friendly to newcomers and you will get a correction, but not a reproach there. But there are some lacks as well.
1) There are not many users, who like to translate existing Esperanto sentences to their own languages, most of them prefer to create by themselves;
2) I'm not so addicted to Tatoeba to learn a language for that;
3) It's not easy to learn two languages at the same time, they are mixing.
I believe, you are touching a very topical issue. It would be interesting to listen to different opinions on that.
Russian is not detected, either.
That's a bug of these certain sentences... My Russian sentences seem to be OK.
I wonder, if such sentences, like "I have great potential" or "I have champagne chilling in my fridge" can be under the copyright. It seems like an absurd for me.
Anyway, their translations to another languages can't be under the copyright.
OK, good :)
I think, you all are qualified enough to evaluate quality of the sentences, created by another people, also you know many of them in person.
Having such list can be useful for those, who are learning Esperanto. Actually, it's the second largest corpus on Tatoeba, but it still doesn't have such list. That's a bit strange )
I've seen it. There are all contributors, and many of them have contributed only one or two sentences in Esperanto. Moreover, quantity is not always quality :)
I mean something like "Native speakers list", where will be only those, who are really fluent in it, and create trustworthy sentences.