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soliloquist's messages on the Wall (total 66)

soliloquist
10 days ago
Sure, it would work, too. It's just that when an unowned sentence is adopted and edited by a native speaker, they may not find it necessary to leave a comment about the correction or improvement they made (and they're right about that). However, if the creator of the sentence wants to be involved and informed, they may prefer not to unown the sentence. Personally, I wouldn't encourage non-native speakers to unown their Turkish sentences as long as they're cooperative with suggestions, but I respect other policies preferred by CMs of other languages. If I want to add an Italian sentence, I'll keep your preference in mind. :-)
soliloquist
11 days ago
I guess you're collecting sentences with such comments in a list. Otherwise it would be difficult to check them. I would rather prefer non-native speakers to create their Turkish sentences and then leave comments saying @NNC. It's possible to filter comments by languages so it would be easier for native speakers to notice and respond. Leaving comments for Turkish translations on non-Turkish sentences may go unnoticed as they move to back pages of the comment feed (which happens pretty fast).
soliloquist
12 days ago
Of course, as long as we mention some users on comments for translation requests, they likely get notifications and respond. However, mentioning specific users might reduce the chance of other users' noticing and participation. I thought you were referring to a more general concept addressing the whole community, like the @NNC tag.

I'm not against this btw. It would work just fine. But a broader concept as I mentioned on the previous message (keywords/tags to be used on translation request comments + a search function on comments) could be more effective in the long-term.

> When you say that you think English would create a bottleneck, do you mean that you think that explicit demands for people to translate into English would overwhelm the number of native speakers in English?

Yes, that was my point.
soliloquist
13 days ago
This method may work well with some languages and between friends, but I think English is a special case and this would likely create a bottleneck as it's the 'language Y' for most users.

Another and bigger problem is the difficulty of finding such comments, especially after some time passes. People would leave comments under sentences in different languages. One request would be under, say, a Turkish sentence, and another would be under a Hungarian sentence. One request would be for an English translation while the other would be for German. Categorizing and finding them would be difficult as they begin to pile up.

If there was a search function within comments, it would be easier to find them using some keywords or tags.
soliloquist
14 days ago
> One trouble I'm having when I search for audio files for Arabic nothing comes up.

Because there isn't any Arabic audio yet as Thanuir mentioned. OsoHombre, a native Arabic-speaking member, once said he would eventually add audio to his Arabic sentences. He hasn't been active recently (he told me he was busy and didn't have time for voluntary translations), but he may return and add Arabic audio in the future.

You can try to translate these Arabic sentences into English.

https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...io=&sort=words

Welcome to Tatoeba.
soliloquist
20 days ago
> OsoHombre has used a lot of Arab names in his sentences

Actually, the way OsoHombre builds up his corpus isn't much different from CK's. He has his own standard names, too.

Sami <-> Tom
Layla <-> Mary
Fadil <-> John
Salima <-> Alice
Cairo <-> Boston

I think users adding original sentences in large numbers tend to adopt this wildcard policy one way or another. It has its advantages. The question is, if this policy is useful for users individually, will extending it to all original sentences in a language bring more good than harm, or vice versa?

Btw, there's a phone-number search site generating thousands of spam pages by using the patterns of Tom sentences here with different names for SEO purposes. It's interesting to see how many derivations can be done just from a single pattern.

https://www.google.com/search?q...w=1277&bih=538
soliloquist
22 days ago
A forum section with subforums for different communities/languages where users can discuss matters and ask questions would be nice.
soliloquist
30 days ago
Thank you very much, porfiriy. You've summed it up nicely.
soliloquist
2019-02-20 19:34 - 30 days ago
Yes. Removing sentences from lists resets their numbers on 'All public lists' page. But they're still shown correctly on the lists' own pages.

Edit: It's fixed now.
soliloquist
2019-02-18 18:01
Yes, they're all correct, gillux. Even if there were some very old people using Ottoman Turkish as the primary language today, they, too, would use the Latin script to be understood.

I'm not asking Ottoman Turkish sentences to be converted to Latin anyway. If one wants to add sentences in the Arabic script, it's perfectly fine. I simply want users to be allowed using the Latin script, too. The Arabic script is consonantal. That makes it rather difficult to read and use unknown words and expressions comparing to the Latin script. Perhaps that's why almost all Ottoman Turkish sentences here are transliterations of modern Turkish.
soliloquist
2019-02-17 18:28
>I had a look at the English Wikipedia article about the Ottoman Turkish language, and I am a bit confused because it says that this language switched to the Latin script as it evolved into modern Turkish. Can you elaborate about the contemporary use of Arabic vs. Latin to write Ottoman Turkish?

Thanks for your reply, gillux. Have you seen the GitHub issue? I tried to explain this there. Also, there are some other languages being affected from this issue.

https://github.com/Tatoeba/tato...ment-463754887

The Turkish language reform consists of a script reform and replacing of loanwords. They are different things. Allowing Ottoman Turkish sentences in the Latin script will increase contributions in the old language and its readability. Currently, almost all 'Ottoman Turkish' sentences on Tatoeba are simply transliterations of modern Turkish into the Arabic script. They're not wrong, but they don't truly reflect the old language. If one looked here to compare Ottoman Turkish and modern Turkish, they would assume that the only difference is the alphabet.


>One way to quickly solve the display problem is to set the direction of Ottoman Turkish to "auto".

This sounds good to me. If doing it would display sentences in both Arabic and Latin scripts correctly and wouldn't cause any unintended consequences, why not?


> I strongly discourage you from doing this because then these sentences are excluded from the Ottoman Turkish corpus, they won't show up in searches and statistics

I created only one pair set as 'unknown' for demonstration. I'm adding romanized Ottoman Turkish sentences to Turkish corpus for now. I will change them back to Ottoman Turkish once a solution is found.
soliloquist
2019-02-12 22:54
That's a different issue, but I agree. It would be useful. When studying a language that can be written in multiple scripts, one may need to view sentences written only in a particular script like Chinese sentences written in traditional Chinese or Berber sentences written in the Tifinagh script. Currently, it's not possible to separate/filter sentences in such a way.
soliloquist
2019-02-10 21:14
#7771502

I've noticed that the 'other language' flag is direction-neutral. It allows both left-to-right and right-to-left scripts. So I think it should be possible to implement this to other languages that can be written in multiple scripts.
soliloquist
2019-02-09 21:32
I have problems adding Ottoman Turkish sentences written in Latin script. The punctuation order gets corrupted and it looks weird. The system only works properly when using Arabic script with Ottoman Turkish.

Some languages are written in more than one script. Like Azerbaijani (Latin, Arabic and Cyrillic), Kurdish (Latin and Arabic) or Serbian (Latin and Cyrillic).

I guess there are Serbian sentences written in both Latin and Cyrillic scripts on Tatoeba. It isn't a problem when the script direction is same as in Serbian, but if the direction is different, it becomes difficult to use the script other than the 'default' one.

Can't something be done about it?
soliloquist
2019-01-22 20:10 - 2019-01-22 20:18
Not long ago, I've noticed a Turkish advanced contributor unlinking sentences of some users (including mine), just because they are not translated literally or have some errors, and without being kind enough to leave a comment. I sent a PM, but couldn't get a response. Unfortunately, it's not easy for one to track down their unlinked sentences. I wish we could easily see the editing, unlinking and tagging activities made on our sentences, just like we can see comments.

I don't know what exactly the problem within the Hungarian community is, but I guess such behavior isn't limited to the Turkish community. Still, I think you shouldn't leave just for that reason.
soliloquist
2019-01-20 04:39 - 2019-01-20 06:19
Sentence owners are not shown on comments.

https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentence_comments/index

Previously, that was only the case with orphan sentences.
soliloquist
2019-01-20 04:37
Thank you.
soliloquist
2019-01-18 20:01
I think there's a bug with the add-to-list function on pages with numerous sentences (like list pages or "translate user's sentences" pages). On such pages, sentence selection goes wrong if a previously-selected sentence is selected again. Add-to-list command is erroneously sent to the previous sentence.

It might sound unclear so I've created a few example sentences to demonstrate.

https://dev.tatoeba.org/eng/act...es_of/testuser

Just add those sentences into some lists. Do it in order, not randomly. After getting done with the 3rd one, select the 1st or 2nd one again and try to add it into another list. You'll reproduce the bug.

This is present on both the main and the dev site.
soliloquist
2019-01-13 22:04
You can create a transifex account and translate those untranslated strings yourself.

https://www.transifex.com/tatoeba/tatoeba_website/