Datayê ma binê lîsansanê biçeşît yê Muşterekê Afirnayoxî de yeno neşrbîyene.Hîna zaf melumatî
Eke şima na muhtewa ra hes kenê, xeyrê xo seba yew bexişkerdişî bifikirîyê.
Dês (mewzûyêk)
Tîpî
Verê perskerdişê persêk xeyrê xo persa xo ser o PZP de cigêrayîş bikerê.
Ma wazenîme ke seba munaqeşeyanê medenîyan atmosferêko rindane îdame bikerîme. Xeyrê xo qaydeyanê ma yê verba hereketanê xiraban biwanê.
Thanuir
vizêr
LeviHighway
vizêr
frpzzd
vizêr
LeviHighway
vizêr
LeviHighway
vizêr
AlanF_US
vizêr
LeviHighway
vizêr
PaulP
vizêr
Rok
vizêr
Feniks
vizêr
Hey,
let me introduce myself and ask youse a couple questions.
I'm French, an engineer in math & computer sciences, and a language lover as most of youse are.
I've seen in some comments that scripts had been designed to automatically remove and link cloned sentences, or trim extra spaces, and such on, but there was still work to be done. I'm a fellow Gentoo user and I might be able to help on that :)
Is there any plan to create an application that would read the data file and parse it ? If anyone is interested, we could sort of start something :)
Cheers,
Victor.
This is interesting. I wish I could have a chat with sysko when he's available. I don't mean to interfere with his work, as I know it can be irritating to have other people meddle with what you worked from A to Z, but maybe I could give him a hand on certain parts, ... I dunno :)
Yes, there are exciting times ahead. Sysko is pretty busy with having recently moved to China but occasionally drops in on IRC. Just to wet your appetite until we get an official announcement (maybe something on the blog -- hint, hint), I believe sysko plans on writing the new Tatoeba site in C++ with the CppCMS framework (available in the funroll-loops overlay).
(psst: you can easily find sysko on IRC when in China is late in the evening, so here around 15h-17h :D)
For getting more visibility, you should also write a PM to Trang or sysko, but me too I will notify them as soon as possible :)
The script now fuses duplicate sentences, and nothing more than this. Scripts for spaces and typography stuff are only planned for a distant future (because we don't have a lot of programmers here at the moment ^^'), so you are welcome to help in this (and any other) field! :D
In addition to Pharamp's comment, it's worth mentioning that if I'm not mistaken, the new tatoebadb has been completed so work will now move to developing the new interface. The code should live in an on-line repository and I'm sure sysko would be very happy with all the help he can get with coding and testing.
The new database is, by the way, designed specifically for Tatoeba and will be vastly more powerful than the current one. For one, it will allow for real time searches so duplicate sentences can be detected as they are being committed. :-)
Je suis choqué que certains utilisateurs utilisent des pseudonymes multiples sur Tatoeba pour leur servir de claque ou jouer des tours à d'autres utilisateurs.
Ce comportement est inacceptable sur un service collaboratif, qui devrait être ouvert et transparent.
Je propose que les utilisateurs multiples depuis la même adresse IP ou le même sous-domaine soient systématiquement bloqués et que tout utilisateur pris en flagrant délit d'utiliser ce type de tactique soit banni du service.
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I find schoking that some users use multiple pseudos on Tatoeba to serve as cheering pack or to play tricks to other users.
This is an unacceptable behaviour on such a collaborative service, which should be open and transparent.
I suggest multiple users from the same IP subdomain be systematically blocked and that any user being caught resorting to such tactics be banned from the service.
I know only of two users who have created and used additional accounts, boracasli and FeuDRenais, but don't think it was ever any doubt who they were. I didn't notice whether boracasli ever tried to hide his identity on his secondary accounts after his block, but there was hardly ever any doubt who was behind dimasadventures.
I do share your view that users should not resort to creating extra accounts with the intent of deceiving the community.
I can see no evidence that the user formally known as FeuDRenais tried to trick you or anyone else -- or even that you were confused as to the identity of the username. The contributor chose a pretty transparent username, referring to the set of sentences tracing the story of Dima that FeuDRenais has been contributing. He furthermore referred to previous discussions with you and others making his identity clear.
But, yes: users whose behaviour harms the community should (and have been) blocked. That behaviour isn't restricted to creating secondary usernames.
[not needed anymore- removed by CK]
>My first impression was that he just set up another account, so that he could keep his "Dima's Story"sentences grouped under another (descriptive) username. To me, this seems like a perfectly good reason to have 2 usernames.
Then he shouldn't use different identities in same threads, which just confuses people who read the thread. It's like I would change face in a face to face discussion. I find such behaviour absolutely deceitful and despicable!
Just for the record, Demetrius did once (very briefly).
Regarding mine, I'll get rid of it in a few weeks, don't worry. And I don't intend to play pranks or fool anyone with it (though I admit, the possibilities are just so tempting!)
Oh, and I would never deny the messages I wrote using this account. Not in a 100 years.
In fact, if there's a way, I would love them to be exported to my standard account, so that they don't get lost when this one's dumped.
>But, yes: users whose behaviour harms the community should (and have been) blocked. That behaviour isn't restricted to creating secondary usernames.
Like menacing to "stab" people for instance? Or proclaiming they have "dirty hands"?
>I can see no evidence that the user formally known as FeuDRenais tried to trick you or anyone else
Yes, it's a trick anyway, because this way, he avoids holding messages in his message history that he doesn't want to take responsibility for.
This way, he "hides" part of his activity on this service and this tricks other users.
As such, it is despicable and shameful, as everything that can deceive people.
There are a lot of (personal) feelings here. I want to remind everyone to be fair respectful to everybody.
Please read the blog of Trang: http://blog.tatoeba.org/2010/09...espectful.html
If there's a need to go on a personal level please write a PM and not on the wall. Thanks!
>There are a lot of (personal) feelings here. I want to remind everyone to be fair respectful to everybody.
My message wasn't personal AT ALL. It is Swift who started to name names, not me...
I do not take responsibility for this outing.
I agree. Multi-User for destructive reasons would not be fair to the comunity. But if you ban users from the same IP, think about e.g. families where maybe many users share an IP or even the same computer. In the last case you even can not get this by using cookies.
>think about e.g. families where maybe many users share an IP or even the same computer
Well, then you would have to explain yourself to the admin and justify the situation. I doubt there are many cases of multiple Tatoeba addicts within families, given that we're less than 3000 users out of a world population of 7 billions..
I feel trust among contributors is essential and there is no trust now because a few individuals pervert the service. So measures must be taken and that comes with a cost. Trust is indeed costly.
In addition to being strongly against any kind of repression, I can see a lot of technical troubles.
First, "subdomains" have little to do here, we usually employ this term when it comes to dividing a domain name into distinct parts : qdii.machin.com, sacredceltic.machin.com are different subdomains of the main domain machin.com.
What come closest is IP address classes but once again, this is something that is far away from what I think you refer to. IP classes are a bunch of - for instance - thousands of IP addresses given to the provider (such as Orange, or AOL). Each of them is then dealt to the final consumers.
Now what you are saying imply that every user is given one unique IP address, but this is misleading. kroko pointed out that family could have many. I would like to extend that idea a bit : an enterprise could wrap all its workers' computer address into one unique external IP address. This can be done at larger scales too, such as land and countries (China if you hear me). This is called Net Address Translation and is just totally transparent to the website.
Some people might have more than one IP address too : I sometimes connect from work on my spare time, and my internet provider holds the right to change my IP address at any time.
These, in addition to IPv6 coming up in the next years, makes banning upon IP address irrelevant :)
and you obviously know a lot about it and rejoice at this, huh?
I know a lot about it simply because I'm an engineer in computer sciences.
Je ne m'en réjouis pas, ça m'est égal : je n'ai qu'un seul compte de toute façon.
Je trouve juste ça dommage de devoir imposer un système aussi drastique. Je me demande aussi quelle utilité il y a à avoir plusieurs comptes, même pour qqn qui veut foutre la merde : au pire, pour les mêmes raisons que celles que j'ai évoquées, tu recrées un compte avec une autre ip et voilà.
>Je ne m'en réjouis pas
yes, you did rejoice at it with your smiley. A smiley is suppoosed to be a way to show satisfaction, as far as I have been told...
>Je me demande aussi quelle utilité il y a à avoir plusieurs comptes, même pour qqn qui veut foutre la merde
Well, I don't debate the reasons why people use such deviant behaviours as using multiple identities on websites such as this. But the fact is that a few do, and doing so, they breach the communities' trust.
>It's called ad hominem argument.
I beg your pardon?
Well, I've taken this bad habit to add smileys everywhere, it can be confusing sometimes. Really I put them to appease people.
My point was just to stress that this is not feasible. But anyway, the problem is not with the user having many accounts, but with the user himself really.
I mean, I don't mind anyone having more than one account as long as he behaves. I just can't find any reasons to do so :)
Conversely, I would mind someone with one account not behaving.
It's called ad hominem argument.
Ah, sorry, it's not even an argument...
I got your point. But imagine that even Taoeba-Fans often heard from friends about this site. So it's thinkable that they'll meet in real live and share the same Net. Moreover liguistic student who surf in the same University Net.
E.g. me and 'esocom' are somtimes sharing the same Net, cause he's my E-o teacher and sometime we do a Taoeba lesson in the classroom, were everyone brings it's own Netbook.
Please, don't ban me...!?
I see, you're encouraging affairs in the business, huh?
It might become a bit confused with affairs and multiple pseudos, though...
Anyway, using multiple pseudos in services like this, is shameful. I can think of no other word to describe it.
It's called argumentum ad hominem.
Sometimes I make mistakes (well, all the time). Other Hungarian contributors may translate the same sentence in the future. It was the second time, when I saw, they translated well. And my translation was crappy. But I do not think, they "can" comment to my sentence, when I translated for example from Japanese, and they will translate it from German/Slovak. They may do not know where was it misinterpreted. They can not advise a translation if they understand the German one, and I understand a Japanese. Result: New Hungarian sentence will be created, I mean duplicated (but their last one is the correct translation). Solution: When I saw, they made a second (Hungarian) version, linked from another language (German) than mine (Japanese), I would check my sentence if I feel I did something wrong in the past. But I can not check up on myself, if I do not receive a message: "New translation added on one of your sentences in Hungarian" or something like that. That was my complain. Hah, maybe there is nothing wrong with the system (tatoeba, contributions, translation links), it was my fault. Maybe I miss a system what is more fault-tolerant, I mean if I faulted, made mistake. Maybe I need a private "ban me" button. Sorry :D. But I really do not know how can I fight against my clumsy sentences.
If I understand you correctly, you're saying that you would like to get notices when there are translations to sentences (e.g. German) that are related to the one you've translated from (e.g. Japanese), so you can compare them.
Currently there is no such feature as contributors are simply trusted to be sufficiently proficient in the languages they are translating to and from. Adding safeguards to help users spot their mistakes could lower their guard and actually lower the quality of committed sentences.
I would suggest that if you find you're making mistakes, you should just reassess at what level you're confident with contributing at. If you're interested in challenging yourself, you could see if you can team up with a proficient user at a community such as http://lang-8.com to review your work before committing it to Tatoeba.
Possibly in the future when the new Tatoeba interface gets implemented, one could even imagine a service allowing users to contribute sentences that would be committed to the corpus via the planned API once another contributor has verified it as a natural sentence and an accurate translation. http://tatob-8.com, anyone?
Maybe you can ask some other Hungarian translators for help to chec your sentences. I do that with my translations. They would be all cross checked by some friends around the planet.
So I got a daily feedback on my translations, and I fail a lot. ;p
I wanted to put forward the following sentence as a translation challenge:
"I looked around and noticed that I was the only car on the road."
The key element that I am testing about this phrase is whether languages other than English can refer to one's car as oneself ("I", in this sentence).
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/584979
The sentence is number 584979. I linked another English sentence with the same meaning, but referring to the car as "mine" instead of "I".
In a lot of children's books you have anthropomorphic cars, as in the Disney Movie "The Love Bug". so it should be possible in any language and it will sound strange in all languages if you don't realize the context.
Une interview de Trang sur le projet Tatoeba vient d'être publiée par le blog de l'association toulousaine d'espéranto :
http://lakrokodil.wordpress.com...e-sur-tatoeba/
Vous êtes invités à y laisser vos commentaires.
Merci bien!!
[not needed anymore- removed by CK]
Nice idea, it's like tagging tags ;)
Id'd suggest adding "grammar" to your color tags.
Also I think tags should be translated as well, but this doesnt concern your idea.
Very nice! :-)
I'm sorry to bring this up if it has already been discussed before, but why do we have tags like "less than 8 words"? Isn't that something that could be calculated on the fly if needed?
Essentially, we have tags for anything that a trusted user considers useful. Until now there hasn't been much discussion on which ones we should stick with, but we'll hopefully get to that soon.
The tag you mention does no harm and can be useful so as long as someone is willing to create and/or maintain it, all the power to them.
Le anglese, como on sape, domina in le mundo. Interlingua, multo plus facile que le anglese, es comprendite a prime vista per milliones de personas parlante le linguas romanic. Ma solmente esperanto es bastante facile, flexibile e neutral pro esser un solution optimal in tote le mundo, anque in le paises asiatic. Il me pare que on debe tractar esperanto sin prejudicios e sin enthusiasmo exaggerate - como un utensile efficace, non como un ideologia.
hola, escribo desde Galicia y quisiera saber que tengo que hacer para añadir un idioma más, si es que es posible. gracias
Bienvenida!
Esta es la página donde están todas las informaciones!
http://tatoeba.org/spa/faq#new-language
¡El español acaba de superar al ruso en el número de oraciones!
Es temporalmente. ;)
Это временно. ;)