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PaulP
10 hours ago
aleteacher2
14 hours ago
sharptoothed
2 days ago
sharptoothed
14 days ago
sharptoothed
14 days ago
TATAR1
14 days ago
AlanF_US
15 days ago
sharptoothed
16 days ago
Shanaz
19 days ago
Qaztat
19 days ago
Japanese index update
I've sent in an update to 716 records for the Japanese index data to the team@tatoeba.fr address - hope you can sneak them in. ;-)
I have been amending the indices in situ in a few places, so I hope we
don't overlap. Perhaps we need an RCS of some sort.
If there was a 'last changed' date field (to the nearest day) the SQL on the update could be made to avoid changing entries last changed past a certain day.
The risk of overlap isn't going to be huge though, so anything too complicated or tricky to implement may actually reduce work efficiency.
I'm planning to add some Cantonese sentences. This might be a stupid question, but should I include the jyutping in the sentences?
As far as I can see, currently transcription isn't generated for Cantonese (eg. sent. No. 382502). But it's generated for Mandarin and Shanghainese, so I believe it'll be implemented in the future.
Yep you're right Demetrius, it will be added soon, adso as a beta support for jiutping, but if you know a good free software for Cantonese romanization, tell us :)
@nickyeow thanks to contribute (also) in Cantonese :)
I don't know any of these, unfortunately.
The only Cantonese wordlist with transcriptions I’ve seen is here: http://e-guidedog.sourceforge.net/cantonese.php , but it is inaccurate according to its creators.
No, you shouldn’t. All transcription is generated automatically. Maybe it isn't generated for Cantonese (I don't know), but it should be generated in future.
But if you're inclined to, you can add transcription in comments. :)
It's good we'll have Cantonese sentences! :)
Btw, is Jyutping really employed more often than Yale? In all books I read and the course I attended Cantonese Yale was used.
In Hong Kong we usually use Jyutping, but you can also see Yale employed in some dictionaries.
At HKUST they teach Yale :)
Thanks for your answer! :)
Member status
I think it would be a good idea to be able to tell who has 'trusted user' status and who has 'admin access'. I suggest:
* Icon next to name in comments posted and next to posts on the wall.
* Full title given in the user's profile "%s is a Trusted-User" or something. Could make Trusted-User link to an explanation of what that means and how you get it.
There is a way to tell, but it's not obvious. From the "Members" section, if you re-organize by status, you can easily see who are the current trusted users:
http://tatoeba.org/eng/users/al.../direction:asc
But I agree it would be nice to be able to tell, right from the comments, what is the status of a user.
I've read the latest Tatoeba Blog, but I'm going to comment here because I think more people read it. :-)
*******
I'm not 100% convinced by the 'adoption' approach, but I think it could work with a few adjustments. Here's one idea:
I think people (not the owners) should be able to issue an official 'call for action'. That call would only be able to be closed by the person who made it, or by a 'super user' (e.g. Trang, Sysko, etc.)
How it could work:
* User sees a sentence that is linked to a sentence that it is not a good translation of. User cannot unlink it because both sentences are owned.
* User posts a comment with the 'Call for action' checkbox ticked. "Please unlink this sentence from sentence 123XXX00 as it is not a good translation."
* Owner of sentence is notified. Owner of sentence has a link to a list of all currently open 'calls for action' on his sentences. The super users (Trang, Sysko) also have a similar link that works for all users.
* If, after one week, the call for action is _not_ closed the the ownership of the sentence is revoked and the person who posted the request is notified.
* The person who posted the request can close it at any time, when he is satisfied with the explanation given by the owner or action taken.
* Super-users (Trang, Sysko, etc.) can deal with the request themselves, and can also close the action item even if the person who made it is not satisfied (person making request might not come back to Tatoeba, it might have been a trivial or frivolous request).
This would give a formal and more easily trackable way of handling corrections needed to owned sentences, given that the owner may be away or may otherwise lose track of the comments made on his sentences.
> I've read the latest Tatoeba Blog, but I'm going to comment here because I think more people read it.
Actually I haven't posted about it here yet because it wasn't really official yet ;) I was still discussing it with sysko, and actually reviewed certain things, but the overall idea remains the same.
For now, we are focusing correcting sentences themselves, not the way they are linked. Because there are many sentences in French that could be corrected, and quickly, if only we took the time to check them in an organized way.
The whole linkage problem is of course something we will have to deal with, but it is actually in what would be the "phase 2". Not something we will work on yet... If we can already provide a "sentences.csv" that is not filled with spelling/grammar mistakes, it will be a good step forward.
When will the Tatoeba interface next be updated from the Launchpad translation data? I've noticed that some of the more obvious mistakes are still around although I corrected them in Launchpad some time ago.
Next time should be tomorrow, when we update Tatoeba for bug fixes and small changes.
But generally speaking, the interface translations can be updated any time... Since it's not entirely automated, it's not regular... You have to remind me to do it ^^'
I see the interface update has gone through. I think it looks a lot better now.
Notes on Tatoeba interface translation.
* Launchpad is no longer showing the full path to the source code. It doesn't include the website any more.
* Translation item 15
\controllers\user_controller.php:258
The original English is incorrect. It should be "Error" not "Erreur"
* Translation item 505
The original English has some minor errors.
"We really want to thanks" -> "We really want to thank"
"us a much more complete data files" -> "us much more complete data files"
"wouldn't have a so much complete IPA" -> "wouldn't have an IPA so complete."
Also, possibly "IPA table" rather than just IPA? (Not sure)
[not needed anymore- removed by CK]
So, this is the link that get passed on from good contributor to good contributor:
http://blog.tatoeba.org/2010/02...n-tatoeba.html
I really need to put it somewhere so that more people will be enclined to read it. Anyway, as Paul explained, you should not change a sentence if it is valid.
But you have to know that only 'trusted users' can link/link sentences at the moment. The 'sentence_annotations' page as well can only be accessed by trusted users. This is because these features require a deeper understanding of Tatoeba and are not dummy-safe.
If you are interested in becoming a trusted user, you can just ask me :)
this is the link that get passed on from a crazy cult member to another:
[tatoeba's bible]
I really need to put it as the site's background image.
But you have to know that only 'elite cult members' can perform rituals at the moment.
If you are interested in becoming one, just ask to be initiated :P
-------------------------------------------
btw, are slangy sentences allowed on tatoeba...u know gaming slang, 1337 speak, gang slang...
PS watch out for the lame battle b/w arabic n portuguese :P
which battle 0:-)?
Who gets more sentences. :)
Oh, Demetrius, I didn't know that you battle saeb ;).
oh, MUIRIEL, let's pretend that you don't keep on adding portuguese until it's one more than arabic xD....I'm smelling a conspiracy...Let me guess, Trang is in on this too right? You guys are so on!
You're lucky I'm full of homework in these weeks :P
But I guess Portuguese and Arabic will both lose to Dorenda.
Well, I still have over 600 sentences to go before I catch up with Portuguese, and even more for Arabic, so if work hard, there still is a chance for you to stay ahead of Dutch. :P
Why so paranoiac, saeb ;)?
Great work, brauliobezerra =)!
I don’t battle anymody. :) I guess I have no chances to make Russian higher than Dutch until Dorenda’s around. :)
Hmm... It seems I can declare war on Esperanto! :)))
> btw, are slangy sentences allowed on tatoeba...u know gaming slang, 1337 speak, gang slang...
They are allowed, but if you do add these kind of sentences, it would be useful if you put them in a list. Also we prefer to avoid sentences that are "not safe for kids" until we have a way to tag them and filter them out (so that people who may use our content for educational purpose can only go for the more "decent" type of content).
> PS watch out for the lame battle b/w arabic n portuguese :P
You guys make me laugh (in a good way :P) It's actually entertaining to watch x)
PS: I had nothing to with it. Muiriel decided to pick on you on her own!
*Corrected typo*
This is the official method, AFAIK.
1. Do not change either the Japanese or the English (provided that both Japanese and English are valid sentences).
2. Add a new sentence, as a translation, of either the Japanese or English.*
* For practical reasons it is best to add a new English translation of the Japanese as the Japanese needs index information adding. Also it is preferable to add sentences in your native, not second, language.
3. After adding the new translation, unlink the old translation. You can do this by 'owning' either the sentence being translated (Japanese) or the incorrect old translation (English), refreshing the page, and then clicking the appropriate 'scissor icon'.
4. The 'meaning' field of the Japanese index data will need to be changed to the ID of the new sentence. You can do that from this page
http://tatoeba.org/sentence_annotations/
although it may be easier just to leave a note / PM for me or Jim to do so.
Linkage.
OK, I'm seeing a lot of cases where two sentences should be linked (or unlinked) but both are owned. Could we allow linking/unlinking between sentences even if we aren't the owners? It's slowing things down, especially as you can't count on people staying in Tatoeba.
Yes, but before I give more power to trusted users, I want to display the "latest links" somewhere (in the same way there's a page where you can see the latest sentences added/edited/deleted).
but isn't that too much power? technically trusted users can then 'disappear' a sentence, right?
They don't actually go anywhere, and can still be found by a whole bunch of methods.
Some sentences need to disappear, anyway ;-)
See
http://tatoeba.org/jpn/sentences/show/383895
It's linked to
http://tatoeba.org/jpn/sentences/show/336221
(which should be deleted)
It isn't directly linked to
http://tatoeba.org/jpn/sentences/show/383894
(but it should be)
At the moment I can't link it to the sentence it should be linked to, nor can I unlink it from the sentence it should be unlinked from.
I can see that you need it :), but generally speaking, if it gets implemented for trusted users...well it'll be possible for s.o. to unlink a sentence and cause it to be 'left behind' without the consent of it's owner...which is pretty close to deleting a sentence imo.
Well, dude*, we're either trusted or we're not.
* Hopefully correct.
yet there isn't any real criteria for getting trusted or not mate*.
* Hopefully correct.
[not needed anymore- removed by CK]
[not needed anymore- removed by CK]
Actually both those cases, kimi and boku, are notorious for being very often used by the opposite gender to that expected by textbooks.
Those [M] and [F] refer to the Japanese.
I added them years ago at someone's suggestion as it seemed like a good idea at the time 8-)}. Ideally they should be part of metadata associated with the Japanese. It wouldn't break my heart if they were removed from the English sentences entirely.
[not needed anymore- removed by CK]
I'd forgotten they were originally on the Japanese sentences. All the more reason to remove them from the English ones.
I think moving them back to the Japanese is more than a global replacement. I think it would be better to remove them totally.
> I think moving them back to the Japanese is more than
> a global replacement. I think it would be better to
> remove them totally.
I suggest holding your horses on the second part, at
least until Tatoeba has a meta data handling system up.
JPN INDICES
I've sent* in a UTF-8 file (with BOM, unfortunately) containing the updated index and meaning field information I've been working on. Could Sysko or Trang update Tatoeba from it and post here when it's done?
* To the team@tatoeba.fr address.
Yes, I would like to know too. I have a change or two to get in before Saturday's dump.
I've just read an email from Trang saying it's done. Hope it all went well (fingers metaphorically crossed - would be really crossed but that makes typing difficult).