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Wall (7354 threads)

Astúcias

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We aim to maintain a healthy atmosphere for civilized discussions. Please read our rules against bad behavior.

Darrièrs messatges subdirectory_arrow_right

Thanuir

3 hours ago

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Rovo Rovo 3 days ago April 2, 2026 at 5:50:23 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Tatoeba m'indique dans un premier temps que la phrase "N'interrompez jamais un ennemi qui est en train de faire une erreur." (citation de Napoléon Bonaparte) n'existe pas encore dans son corpus mais quand je veux l'introduire, il prétend que ma phrase ne peut être ajouté au prétexte qu'elle existe déjà (introduite par Voltaire (robot du Projet Voltaire).
Que faire parce qu"on n'a pas accès à cette phrase ?

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Thanuir Thanuir 3 days ago April 3, 2026 at 8:12:45 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Lause on tässä, niin muiden ei tarvitse etsiä: https://tatoeba.org/eo/sentences/show/7709519

brauchinet brauchinet 3 days ago, edited 3 days ago April 3, 2026 at 9:46:21 AM UTC, edited April 3, 2026 at 9:47:22 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Das könnte ein Vorschlag für eine Anpassung sein:

Wenn ein Satz eingegeben wird, der schon existiert, wird dieser Satz im Regelfall abgelehnt.
Wenn aber der existierende Satz "rot" ist, könnte er durch den neuen ersetzt werden.
Das wäre eine einfache Möglichkeit, rote aber korrekte Sätze zu "entsperren".

Man müsste sich überlegen, ob diese Vorgehensweise die Rechte des gesperrten Autors des Satzes verletzt. Wahrscheinlich nicht. Man könnte auch nur den Autor austauschen und das entsprechend in den Logs dokumentieren.

AlanF_US AlanF_US 1 days ago, edited 1 days ago April 4, 2026 at 5:53:55 PM UTC, edited April 4, 2026 at 5:54:44 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Realistically speaking, in this particular situation, if you think it's really important that the corpus have this specific sentence in a version that is not marked red, your best option is to add a slightly modified version such as:

Comme Napoléon Bonaparte a dit, "N'interrompez jamais un ennemi qui est en train de faire une erreur."

Since there are many reasons a sentence can be marked red (copyright issues related to the specific sentence, copyright issues relating in general to sentences added by the same author, violations of other Tatoeba standards), and since those reasons are not tracked by the system, it's not feasible for a new sentence that exactly matches an existing red one to automatically be let through.

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Thanuir Thanuir 3 hours ago April 6, 2026 at 7:39:23 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Tai tietenkin joku henkilö, jolla on valtuudet poistaa lauseelta sen punaisuus, voisi tehdä sen, jos kokee sen vaivan arvoiseksi. Tämä lause on selvästi riittävän vanha, että on jo vapautunut tekijänoikeuksista, eikä myöskään ole muuten virheellinen, kuten monet tuon käyttäjän lauseista, jos nyt oikein muistan syyt niiden punaisuudelle.

Thanuir Thanuir 3 hours ago April 6, 2026 at 7:43:59 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Lauseelle voi näköjään lisätä käännöksiä. Lisää käännöksen uutena lauseena ja lisää ranskankielisen lauseen käsin käännöksenä.

Esim. https://tatoeba.org/eo/sentences/show/13844149 .

LeviHighway LeviHighway 3 days ago, edited 3 days ago April 3, 2026 at 8:16:43 AM UTC, edited April 3, 2026 at 9:54:05 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I had a discussion at #13684027 , and found some problem that is universal to the corpus, so I want to discuss here.

An inactive non-native speaker wrote this sentence #12888798: "Do you want a electric gaming machine?"

I personally think that sentence is odd, not used, but it's completely grammatically correct. But we cannot infer that if the author of the sentence meant "consoles" or "video games". How should we deal with it? Should we keep it as "Do you want a electric gaming machine?", or should we change it into "consoles" or "video games", or should we delete it?

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Thanuir Thanuir 2 days ago April 4, 2026 at 5:16:49 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Jos lause on oikein, vaikka kenties epätodennäköinen, saa se yleensä jäädä.

Jos sillä on useita mahdollisia käännöksiä, voit kääntää sen millä tahansa tai usealla tavalla, tai tietenkin jättää kääntämättä.

Yksi vaihtoehto, joka tulee mieleen, on että sen kääntää nimenomaan sähköiseksi pelilaitteeksi, joka lienee samalla tavalla outo käännöskielessä kuin alkuperäinenkin lause on. Tällöin molemmat lauseet toivottavasti ilmaisisivat, että kirjoittaja tai puhuja ei oikein ole mukana nykyteknologian kehityksessä, tai käyttää tarpeettoman teknistä, tarkkaa ja hankalaa käsitettä, tms.

AlanF_US AlanF_US 1 days ago, edited 1 days ago April 4, 2026 at 5:27:19 PM UTC, edited April 4, 2026 at 5:31:12 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

The best thing to do with a problematic sentence, whether it's incorrect or just odd, is to add a comment to the sentence. This serves a number of purposes:
- it tells the author of the sentence (who may still be active) and other members of the community that there is something questionable about it and that they should consider modifying, unlinking, retranslating, or deleting it
- it serves as a starting point for other members of the community to contribute their insights, which may be valuable
- it warns people who come across the sentence at Tatoeba or other sites that point to it that there is a problem with the sentence and that they shouldn't use it as a model
- it starts the customary two-week grace period after which a corpus maintainer can edit the sentence

You can also add a rating of "unsure" or "not OK", and (if you are an advanced contributor) a tag. The three tags "@change", "@needs native check", and "@check" are checked regularly by corpus maintainers, so they help ensure that the sentence will be reviewed.

The important thing is that you don't have to decide immediately and unilaterally what to do with the sentence. You just have to open a discussion and we can see where things go from there.

As for the general question of whether odd but correct sentences should be changed, the answer is that it depends on many factors, such as whether there is a replacement that is obviously better and whether the sentence is a problematic translation of another sentence.

As a minor point, apart from not being natural, "Do you want a electric gaming machine?" is not correct. The word "a" should be "an".

LeviHighway LeviHighway 11 days ago, edited 10 days ago March 26, 2026 at 3:06:47 AM UTC, edited March 26, 2026 at 11:51:38 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

建議在 [詞彙請求] 中優先顯示例句數多的詞彙項,後顯示例句數少的詞彙項。

比如,包含「學生」的句子可能有 5 個,包含「大學生」的句子可能有 0 個。由於 [現有的詞彙請求] 中優先顯示例句數少的詞彙項,所以大部分人會優先新增「大學生」的句子。當包含「大學生」的句子達到了 10 個,包含「學生」的句子就達到了 15 個。但包含「學生」的句子大多數都是「大學生」。這樣對語料庫的詞彙豐富度是有害的。

I suggest that [Vocabulary Requests] prioritize displaying vocabulary items with more sentences, and show items with fewer sentences later.

For example, there might be 5 sentences containing "學生" and 0 sentences containing "大學生". Since the [Existing Vocabulary Requests] prioritizes items with fewer sentences, most people will add sentences for "大學生" first. By the time sentences containing "大學生" reach 10, sentences containing "學生" reach 15 — but most of those "學生" sentences actually contain "大學生". This is harmful to the lexical richness of the corpus.

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gillux gillux 4 days ago April 2, 2026 at 6:59:48 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Thanks, that is really a problem. We are keeping track of this issue here https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/3275 and I answered you there.

5 days ago April 1, 2026 at 9:51:21 AM UTC link Permalink
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kumakyoo kumakyoo 10 days ago March 27, 2026 at 9:24:50 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

In another post - https://tatoeba.org/de/wall/sho...#message_41768 - I offered to @LeviHighway to publish some small programs I'm using to extract greek sentences and roughly sort them by difficulty, based on word counts.

Meanwhile they are online. You can find them at https://github.com/kumakyoo42/tatoeba_tools

The sorting algorithm is mainly designed for languages with spaces between the words. I added support for counting symbols instead of words. With this, I hope at least, sentences of other languages might also be sorted roughly by difficulty. On a whim I checked this with Japanese sentences. At first glance it looks like it might work. The easiest one was "はい" (yes). But I don't know enough about Japanese language to judge the more complicated sentences.

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LeviHighway LeviHighway 6 days ago March 31, 2026 at 2:11:38 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Thank you very much, kumakyoo. Your tool is helpful. I'm always grateful for your programming works. They benefit everyone.

7 days ago March 30, 2026 at 3:12:27 AM UTC link Permalink
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8 days ago March 28, 2026 at 5:12:46 PM UTC link Permalink
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Pfirsichbaeumchen Pfirsichbaeumchen 9 days ago March 28, 2026 at 1:49:37 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Corpus Maintainer Candidate for Chinese (Mandarin);
Kandidato por la bontenado de la ĉina korpuso;
Candidat pour la maintenance du corpus chinois (mandarin) ;
Кандидат в ответственные за корпус для китайского (мандаринского) языка;
Korpuspflegerkandidat für das Chinesische (Mandarin).

LeviHighway: https://tatoeba.org/user/profile/LeviHighway

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12 days ago, edited 12 days ago March 24, 2026 at 2:57:06 PM UTC, edited March 24, 2026 at 2:58:10 PM UTC link Permalink
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12 days ago March 24, 2026 at 11:47:02 AM UTC link Permalink
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