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Wall (7106 threads)

Astúcias

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We aim to maintain a healthy atmosphere for civilized discussions. Please read our rules against bad behavior.

Darrièrs messatges subdirectory_arrow_right

Waldelfe

6 hours ago

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atitarev

11 hours ago

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alouadifama

1 days ago

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hecko

3 days ago

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sharptoothed

3 days ago

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deniko

6 days ago

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Ooneykcall

7 days ago

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Ooneykcall

7 days ago

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lbdx

7 days ago

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Thanuir

8 days ago

atitarev atitarev 11 hours ago May 29, 2025 at 2:55:03 AM UTC link Permalink

Can we see one's own or another user's added transcriptions?

Apparently only applicable to Mandarin Chinese and Japanese (furigana).

For example, how can I or anyone see on https://tatoeba.org/en/sentences/show/184928 who added the furigana?

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Waldelfe Waldelfe 6 hours ago, edited 4 hours ago May 29, 2025 at 8:20:36 AM UTC, edited May 29, 2025 at 10:16:20 AM UTC link Permalink

The furigana was added by you. All you need to do is hover your cursor over the sentence. However, for this to work, you need the new sentence design (see your 'settings').

1 days ago, edited 1 days ago May 28, 2025 at 6:17:18 AM UTC, edited May 28, 2025 at 6:17:45 AM UTC link Permalink
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Ooneykcall Ooneykcall 8 days ago May 21, 2025 at 1:02:19 PM UTC link Permalink

I'm posting this message on the Wall to ask you all a language-related non-Tatoeba question, which may seem a bit out of place for being unrelated to Tatoeba, but as it is language-related I think there's no harm done, particularly since I don't think one can find a satisfactory answer to it online and this is possibly the best place to ask, given the presence of many educated native speakers of various languages here. The question is:

What is the oldest text in your native language[s] that felt sufficiently modern that you were able to read it without particular difficulty? That is, you didn't need to look up old grammar or inflection forms to understand, and there were relatively few words that you had to look up because they've grown obsolete or changed their meanings since then, so overall you were able to read it with little more difficulty than you read modern texts. [Spelling is not considered, assume modernised spelling for old texts like we do in Russian where all modern reprints of pre-1918 texts use current orthography.]

For Russian, I can say that modern Russian ['modern' in a generic sense, not linguistically whereby '[modern] Russian' emerges as a development of Old Russian / Old East Slavic circa XV century, but XV century Russian is very much not easily understandable yet] is generally considered to have begun under Peter the Great [early XVIII century] who directed radical reforms and opened Russian society to Western influence, which naturally caused rapid and significant language change to match the changing times, but of course it didn't happen overnight and the texts of the time are quite variable in terms of style and register with plenty of archaic forms and excessive foreign borrowings that didn't survive, as the 'general modern language style' was slowly being developed. 'Modern-style' texts gradually emerge in the latter half of XVIII century, the first well-known 'modern' text being Denis Fonvizin's Недоросль [Minor/Ignoramus], a play satirizing human vices published in 1783; it's the earliest work of Russian literature studied fully in our schools [earlier XVIII century works are only skimmed over in excerpts]. Nikolay Karamzin's story Бедная Лиза [Poor Lisa], published in 1792 - a short sentimental story about failed love that leads to suicide, deliberately written in a then-vernacular style fitting its motif - is completely understandable to a modern speaker without consulting a dictionary once, I think; obviously, you can tell that it is not modern by usage of certain words and word forms, but none of them present any difficulty since they are easily inferred from currently used forms. So this completes the answer.

I am now quite interested to hear what other people's experiences in this respect are in their native languages, so any and all answers are more than welcome; I hope many of you shall also find this question interesting and will enjoy reading what others have to say about it.

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Thanuir Thanuir 8 days ago May 21, 2025 at 1:24:11 PM UTC link Permalink

Kalevala (alunperin 1835) on haastava, mutta se on eeppistä runoutta.

Seitsemän veljestä (alunperin 1870) on pääosin ymmärretävä, mutta erityisesti maalaisyhteiskuntaan liittyvistä sanoista osa on outoja ja kieli, vaikkakin ymmärrettävää, on selkeän vanhankantaista. Luen fraktuuroilla kirjoitettua laitosta, mikä vaati vähän aikaa totuttelua.

Katsoin vuoden 1548 Raamattua, ja ymmärsin vaivalloisesti, mutta toisaalta kohdan sisältö oli tuttu.

Alunperin suomalainen kirjallisuus ei ole kovin vanhaa.

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Ooneykcall Ooneykcall 7 days ago May 21, 2025 at 7:24:05 PM UTC link Permalink

It was nice learning something new from your comment. I knew about Kalevala, which I figured was too epic to be modern, and obviously Agricola's Bible is archaic though somewhat understandable I imagine. I didn't know about the Seven Brothers, apparently it's the first notable novel in Finnish. Yeah, the Finnish nation [in a modern sense, with its own literature, cohesive culture and nation-state] is quite young, of course. Thank you for answering.

lbdx lbdx 7 days ago, edited 7 days ago May 21, 2025 at 3:38:48 PM UTC, edited May 21, 2025 at 4:14:49 PM UTC link Permalink

Modern French appeared in the early 17th century. It was standardized by the Académie Française, an institution founded in 1635 by Cardinal Richelieu. In 1637, "The Discourse on the Method" by René Descartes was written and published in French so as to reach a wider audience than Latin would have allowed.

In French schools, pupils can read the original texts of Molière's comedies ( 1645–1673) without much difficulty. I also remember studying poems in Middle French, such as Villon's “Ballade des pendus” (1489). The spelling was very different from modern French, but the spoken text was quite intelligible.

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Ooneykcall Ooneykcall 7 days ago May 21, 2025 at 7:35:33 PM UTC link Permalink

Interesting, thanks. I didn't expect the French that existed when the French Academy was established would be so close to modern French 400 years later that you could still read works in it fairly freely, impressive.

[I'm not sure if French pronunciation in 1500 would be that close to current though, I think a lot of phonetic changes happened after the orthography settled down hence they are not reflected by it? E.g. I know 'oi' in words like 'roi' was pronounced rather like 'ouais' until 1700s.]

alouadifama alouadifama 1 days ago May 27, 2025 at 6:44:40 PM UTC link Permalink

For English, texts from the late 1700s to early 1800s, like Jane Austen’s novels, are easily readable without needing to study old grammar or vocabulary. Earlier works like Shakespeare or the King James Bible are still English but feel more archaic & need some interpretation. Austen’s style marks a clear shift to modern readability.

hecko hecko 3 days ago May 25, 2025 at 10:20:15 PM UTC link Permalink

a whimsical treat for japanese beginners who aren't opposed to colorful ponies https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reKOD43NRCA

sharptoothed sharptoothed 3 days ago May 25, 2025 at 6:36:27 PM UTC link Permalink

✹✹ Stats & Graphs ✹✹

Tatoeba Stats, Graphs & Charts have been updated:
https://tatoeba.j-langtools.com/allstats/

5 days ago May 24, 2025 at 11:08:13 AM UTC link Permalink
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deniko deniko 6 days ago May 23, 2025 at 2:25:06 PM UTC link Permalink

What are the odds of finding something like this locally—and for just £1.5?

https://i.imgur.com/v4s03fz.png

6 days ago May 23, 2025 at 6:02:57 AM UTC link Permalink
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6 days ago May 23, 2025 at 6:01:53 AM UTC link Permalink
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8 days ago May 21, 2025 at 8:41:39 AM UTC link Permalink
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