Colloquial Malay / Informal Malay / Local Malay / Bahasa Pasar ?

"Je" used in place of "Saja"

We will be adding another version of Malay called "Malay (Vernacular)" which includes all Colloquial/Informal/Local Malay or Bahasa Pasar. The "Malay" language classification will be left for "Standard Malay" sentences only.

Malay native speakers, should we add this sentence to the "Malay (Vernacular)" classification?

@Adou_Fr @aslakg @azmanayob @buddy6621 @dbahasa @DostKaplan @Dusun_Les @falcons84 @frogprincess @j0rd4nkzf @jessie0422 @jonlam @jrafraf73998 @mercindustries @peacetou @qana @sestersparrow @Skaty @syaido @Versuss

That seems like it would make sense, as this would be used only in a colloquial sense. The more formal version would be "saya/dia/mereka/kita/kami hanya bergurau."

Yes, it is an informal language, to be used only in speaking or quotation of someone speaking.

It's like suggesting that Ebonics be included. I personally don't think it is right for Tatoeba.

@DostKaplan, I actually agree with you. However, Tatoeba uses the classification system set by the Summer Institute of Linguistics and they have "Malay" labeled with a linguistic ISO 639-3 code ZLM, and "Malay, Standard" labeled with ISO 639-3 code ZSM. (Note that "Malay" [ZLM] comprises various dialects including Terengganu and Pahang). TRANG, founder of this project has been adamant about following these classifications and we must continue to do so, until the SIL changes their mind.
If the SIL decides to separate "Ebonics" with a distinct ISO 639-3 code, then so will we... otherwise, any "Ebonics" sentences must be added under our "English" language.

You can find the SIL's contact information here:
http://www-01.sil.org/iso639-3/...574.1444778965

According to SIL, Malay language has various categories (refer to: http://www-01.sil.org/iso639-3/...n.asp?id=msa). Malay languages used in Malaysia are:

Kedah Malay [meo]
Malay (individual language) [zlm]
Negeri Sembilan Malay [zmi]
Sabah Malay [msi]

but indeed, we have dialects incomprehensible by others (true to some Malaysians also) like dialects used Terengganu, Kelantan, and Sarawak. BUT written Malay use only one standard language, which is the medium of education and newspaper, and comprehensible to all Malaysian (Singaporean and Brunei people), namely bahasa Melayu (=Malay).

There are a few words in Bahasa Pasar that are not used in regular Malay that I think are worth translating, such as "bikin" (make/do) and "macam" (like). However, to a certain extent, these colloquialisms are more like contractions or short forms than actual words so I'm not sure they merit separate entries.

I strongly feel that you should just consider Bahasa Malaysia as written and spoken by government officials and news outlets, not Bahasa Pasar (market speak). Similarly the Chinese used here is official Mandarin, not any of the 100+ dialects found in China.

@Adou_Fr, and Standard Malay [ZSM] :)

@DostKaplan that's what ZSM (Standard Malay) is. Officially, Malay ZLM is all the other variants that DON'T have separate ISO 639-3 codes like those Adou_Fr mentioned above, and... This includes Bahasa Pasar.

At first, I thought you meant that "Ebonics" should not be separated from "English", but now I realize that you meant that Ebonics should not be allowed on Tatoeba at all... Ebonics, Bahasa Pasar, etc. are legacies rich in history and tradition and are often lost due to supremacy and the absurd idea that they are somehow inferior or incorrect. I WANT Ebonics on Tatoeba, as much as I want local dialects of every language we have here on Tatoeba. "Terima kasih." is OK for Standard Malay, but I will welcome "Makaseh." for Vernacular Malay (ISO 639-3 ZLM).

I leave it to the tatoeba gods to decide. No, I don't consider Ebonics, Bahasa Pasar, and Cockney suitable for tatoeba. It's hard enough to learn the languages properly. I want to learn how to say "How are you doing?" not "Wazzzzzzup yo!"

What's wrong with having both? People learn languages for different reasons. We have tags that indicate when a sentence is regional or slang. If I go to Malaysia, I wouldn't want to learn "Bahasa Malaysia as written and spoken by government officials and news outlets", I'd want to learn "Bahasa Pasar" or the local variant. There are hundreds of Standard Malay textbooks I can use. What we need is more resources of local variants, because they are valid forms of communication, too.

I would have loved to contribute sentences in the variety of Spanish that my grandmother spoke in her youth (most Spanish users here would leave comments on pretty much EVERY sentence), but it was destroyed by my father and his brothers and sisters who went to school, learned from the grammar nazis that the Spanish regulated by the Royal Spanish Academy is the only legitimate form of Spanish allowed, and then returned and "corrected" the way my grandmother spoke. That language was our legacy, brought by a mix of languages of the various Spanish, French and German immigrants, and it was beautiful: different from what is considered "correct". But, it was in fact, correct to speak that way in the town my grandmother was from. The language I was supposed to grow up with was destroyed... I will do my best so that others don't have to go through the same :)

Tatoeba is not perfect. We are coming up with a tagging system that will help us organize dialects and subdialects of languages.

@cueyayotl Dear cueyayotl, I agreed with you, I myself Malay speaker should write in correct spelling without short form, it is not very precise for the learners. For example: saja (only), not to write in dialect such as "je", "saje" and "sj". @DostKaplan you should learn how to contribute your sentences correctly. Have a good day.

Agreed. So I prefer Colloquial Malay more than Standard Malay