Muro - Tatoeba

To corpus maintainers and advanced contributors, we have identified 60 sentences that have been logged as deleted but are still present in the corpus.

https://github.com/Tatoeba/tato...ment-517555854

I'm just reporting it here and will let you handle them.

kaŝi la respondojn

https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/861250 is a correct sentence. Should I delete it anyway?

kaŝi la respondojn

When in doubt, just use the @delete tag. Either another corpus maintainer can have a look, or you can come back to it later.

kaŝi la respondojn

C'est bien. Merci ! :D

Uhm, interesting.

It was tagged as "delete" because it was a duplicate of #1284790. However, #1284790 was deleted.

#1001614
#1012266
#1103005
#1130232
#1199315
#1236574
#1326
#1395554
#1748110
#20222
#203679
#257711
#322545
#334907
#341800
#3780560
#40917
#436802
#442402
#446043
#454574
#460906
#461060
#4703148
#526503
#549362
#570871
#5893
#5903
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#5912
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#5924
#5934
#660695
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#743624
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#861250
#871995

I would say that these sentences should be treated like any other. If they're bad, either fix or delete them. If they're good, leave them alone. For what it's worth, the sentences that I looked at, in the languages that I speak, were fine.

A lot of them fit the situation that Ricardo mentioned: At some time (apparently when duplicate-merging was not working), people were asking that they be deleted because they were duplicates. Now that duplicate-merging is working, we know that they will be merged if they're identical to other sentences. So there's no reason to do anything.

The only reason to delete the sentences is if you think that's important for the consistency of the database. But you don't seem to be saying that, and I would be surprised if you did.

kaŝi la respondojn

There is also the case of copyrighted sentences. Some sentences might have been copied from somewhere and we decided to delete them for safety.

But yes, I should have been a bit more clear that I reported the sentences here on the Wall specifically because I think it's useful to have a second look at them.

I don't think these sentences are duplicates (at least not exact duplicates) otherwise Horus would have deleted them already. Duplicate-merging happens every 30 minutes or so and these sentences are not new at all.

I noticed that Russian sentences with the accent placed are not equivalent to sentences without stress, although both are found in the search by the same words. So conceived?

This can lead to duplication, although there really are cases when the difference in stress is important.

kaŝi la respondojn

By "not equivalent to", I assume you mean "are not automatically merged with". Indeed, for any language, we don't merge sentences that differ in terms of the presence or absence of an acute combining character, even when this is the only difference. However, we do intentionally ignore the acute combining character when we search in Russian. That is, "и́" is treated like "и".

We could discuss the advantages and drawbacks of doing things this way, but, pragmatically speaking, it has little effect. First of all, we have virtually no Russian sentences in our collection, or very few, that use the acute combining character, though this is a matter of convention rather than policy. Secondly, I believe that the number of sentences with multiple valid readings that differ only in the stress on one or more syllables would be small, except perhaps for very short sentences. And even in such cases, we could disambiguate them by adding comments to them to indicate where the stresses would go.

How often is an acute character used in written Russian for adults, and in which contexts (for example, in unfamiliar names?)?

Why am I finding "Yikes!" searching for "perfect"?

https://i.imgur.com/EoSIHeH.png

kaŝi la respondojn

I see the same thing. Very odd. I don't see anything in the log on the "Yikes!" page that would explain it.

This must be a temporary error in the search engine.
for example: right -> Yikes!
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...rom=eng&to=und
or darn ->
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...rom=eng&to=und

kaŝi la respondojn

Yeah, I can see it for "right", but I don't see "yikes" in the search results for darn.

In any case, that's bizarre.

> a temporary error

Classifying any error as "temporary" is quite an optimistic outlook :)

kaŝi la respondojn

Yeah, "darn" yields other unexpected results.
Funny, now I tried a lot of simple English words and didn't get false results (at least not on the first page). It seems I was lucky with the first two.

Edit: No, there are many false results.

That’s very weird indeed. I am confident that this is caused by the recent update of the search engine. I’m working on it.

Problem solved. Apparently English was the only language affected.

kaŝi la respondojn

Thanks! That was fast, well done! @brauchinet's optimism was well founded then.

Is there a simple explanation of why that was happening, I wonder? It's so bizarre I'm really curious about the why.

kaŝi la respondojn

I am not 100% sure about the why. The only thing I am sure is that the English index showed some errors when I checked it using the "indextool --check" command. So I recreated it.

When we moved from Manticore 2 to Manticore 3 [1] a few days ago, indexes were converted to a new format using a special tool [2]. That tool doesn’t look very stable yet because it caused some unexpected problems I had to work around at that time. So I suspect it also didn’t convert the English index correctly.

I remember "darn" eng→ita showed 4 results of which 2 were incorrect, and now it shows 4 results of which 4 are corrects. So I suspect the tool messed around with the list of sentences each keywords are associated to.

[1] https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/1929
[2] https://manticoresearch.com/201...-to-version-3/

kaŝi la respondojn

Thank you elaborating. Index corruption seems like a plausible explanation as indexes are definitely used when you do a search.

"Apparently English was the only language affected."

Actually, it seems that also other languages are having problems. I tried searching just now sentences in Italian and Esperanto contibuted in a span of time from two days ago to yesterday and they're not indexed yet

kaŝi la respondojn

It's a different problem.

In your case, the issue was that the sentences were not indexed. The scripts to update the indexes were not running because the cron jobs were disabled.

I ran the scripts manually and I think gillux re-enabled the cron jobs, so it should be fine now :)

kaŝi la respondojn

I understand, thanks to both you and gillux :)

My bad, I forgot to re-enable reindexation /o\
Should be fine now.

svp pour les kabyles ajouter la traduction des phrases kabyles (berber ) que vous ajouter
car est le site et à traduire non seulement pour ajouter des phrases
si vous voulez que les gens apprend votre langue . merci
tanmirt

kaŝi la respondojn

Oui, c'est vrai, mais ceux qui ajoutent des phrases, ne consultent pas ce mur.

hello guys i hope you good , please to evry berber and kabyle native speaker can you translate the phrases you add and thank you

** Searching with 2 Tags **

Here are some examples of limiting search results that match 2 tags.

Find imperative sentences that are used in a restaurant
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...%2C+restaurant
Tags: imperative, restaurant

* Find patterns with tenses

https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...+simple%2C+SVO
Tags: SVO, past simple

https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...tinuous%2C+SVO
Tags: SVO, past continuous

https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...+simple%2C+SVO
Tags: SVO, present simple

https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...tinuous%2C+SVO
Tags: SVO, present continuous

https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...simple%2C+SVOO
Tags: SVOO, past simple

https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...simple%2C+SVOO
Tags: SVOO, present simple

https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...inuous%2C+SVOO
Tags: SVOO, present continuous

https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...t+simple%2C+SV
Tags: SV, past simple

https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...ntinuous%2C+SV
Tags: SV, past continuous

https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...t+simple%2C+SV
Tags: SV, present simple

https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...ntinuous%2C+SV
Tags: SV, present continuous

Is there an easy way to find a member who speaks 2 definite languages, e.g. an Hungarian native who also speaks Esperanto?

kaŝi la respondojn

Not exactly what you were looking for, but this is as close as I could get to the task:

https://www.google.com/search?q...r%2Fprofile%2F

basically, search for all profiles that mention both esperanto and hungarian, and also (and that's the biggest limitation, I'm afraid) only those that are set to Public, because otherwise they're not visible from outside.

kaŝi la respondojn

I didn’t think about good old Google, but indeed sometimes it can help. Thank you. Deniko!

Ez az egyszerű út. Kérdezni, és hátha akad, aki válaszol.
Egyébként, én nem beszélem az eszperantót. ~Mi ne parolas Esperanton.

I would just like to bring to the attention of the community that there is some discussion going on regarding the tags, emerging from the mass-tagging feature request.

https://github.com/Tatoeba/tato...ment-515695529

For those who are not on GitHub, feel free to share your thoughts here, in reply to this Wall post.

Have you ever considered contributing to Tatoeba as a developer? Whether you are a beginner or experienced, just curious or ready to go, every contribution to the code, small or big, is welcome.

I have been working at making things easier to contribute. It is now much easier to setup a local instance of Tatoeba and start working on something. In the past, while GNU/Linux users could use Imouto to install Tatoeba, people on Windows or Mac had to install everything manually. It is no longer the case as Imouto now works on Windows and Mac too, and is generally more solid.

How to get started: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tato...as-a-developer

kaŝi la respondojn

I'm interested in helping out but unfortunately I won't have much time until September.

kaŝi la respondojn

Excellent. Is there anything special you’d like to work on?

kaŝi la respondojn

No, nothing special yet.

For a start, I've read all the issues and found some rather easy ones like https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/1884.

kaŝi la respondojn

Looking forward to hearing from you in September :)

Meanwhile I try to tidy up a bit our issues...

I'm not good in PHP (not to mention framework), but I have some experience in JavaScript. The thing I really lack for is leisure time.

kaŝi la respondojn

That’s very good! We definitely need help on the front-end part. Tatoeba’s front-end has been running for a long time with simple jQuery code. More recently, we started using AngularJS and Material to give it a more modern look and feel. Our ultimate goal is to make the website responsive. Some parts have been rewritten using AngularJS, like the registration form, but other parts like the Wall are still running with legacy jQuery code.

I'm very happy to see that we can do this on Windows. I had no problem getting Tatoeba to run locally, which was great. However, when I typed this command in my Run field:

\\172.19.119.178\tatoeba

Windows Security asked me for a username and password to log onto 172.19.199.178. I don't remember ever setting one up, so I'm not sure how to proceed.

Also, I opened Git Bash and tried to execute this command from the parent directory of the "imouto" directory:

git remote set-url origin git@github.com:<username>/tatoeba2.git

where I replaced "<username>" with my GitHub username. I got this:

fatal: not a git repository (or any of the parent directories): .git

Then I opened Git GUI and tried "Clone Existing Repository". However, I wasn't sure how to fill out the Source Location and Target Directory fields. I also tried "Open Existing Repository" but wasn't sure how to fill out the Repository field.

I could have filled out tickets for these, but wasn't sure that was the right way to go. I did fill out tickets for some genuine issues that I saw.

kaŝi la respondojn

> Windows Security asked me for a username and password to log onto 172.19.199.178.

I had that problem too but this is something that should have been solved with:
https://github.com/Tatoeba/imou...4e5c379ea19cca

Maybe anonymous login is too unreliable on Windows... Which Windows version do you use by the way?

At least let's check if it works if you create a samba account.

From the imouto root directory, after doing `vagrant up` (which starts the VM), you can connect via SSH to the VM with `vagrant ssh`.

Once you are in the VM, use the command `sudo smbpasswd -a vagrant`. It will ask you to enter a password. You could press enter and have an empty password if you wish.

After that, try again to go to \\172.19.119.178\tatoeba, enter "vagrant" as username and the password you've set above.

The command `git remote set-url ...` is supposed to be executed from the Tatoeba source code folder that is inside the VM (which you can access via \\172.19.119.178\tatoeba, if it would work). The source code folder is otherwise located in ~/Tatoeba in the VM (after login in via SSH, you would just have to "cd Tatoeba").

Because by default, the git repository in the VM is pointing to the official Tatoeba git repository. But unless you have write access to that repository (like gillux or myself), you will not be able to push any change. So you have to change that URL and set it to your fork repository, which is done with the `git remote set-url ...` command.

kaŝi la respondojn

Excellent! With those instructions, I was able to run:
- the "git remote set-url ..." command
- phpunit tests/TestCase/Model/Table/SentencesTableTest.php
- mysql tatoeba

on my Windows 10 machine. I assume that I won't need to execute the "sudo smbpasswd..." command again, right?

Also, we should tell how to get out of everything. It looks like "exit" works for everything I've tested. I added a note to indicate that you can use it to exit from MySQL.

I submitted a pull request where I updated the instructions to include the "vagrant ssh" and "sudo smbpasswd..." commands. However, I didn't mention that you could use SSH to execute the "git remote set-url" command because that was in an earlier section and I didn't want to do any rearranging on my own.

Many thanks for the help!

kaŝi la respondojn

Actually, "exit" must not close everything down, because when I shut down the machine, Windows says that Virtual Box is still running and asks whether I want to shut down anyway.

This is still puzzling. In theory there should be no login at all. You should be able to go \\172.19.119.178\tatoeba as if it's a normal folder on your hard drive. I am on Windows 10 as well, and it works fine. I wonder what is different on your side... Perhaps some other hidden settings.

Actually, you could try to enter "\" as username and nothing for the password. I know it didn't work on my side when gillux suggested to me, but perhaps it will work on your side.

Cf. https://serverfault.com/questio...ic-samba-share

The post suggests there is a difference between Windows 10 Home and Pro. I have Windows 10 Pro. Perhaps you have Windows 10 Home.

In any case, you will indeed not need to run `sudo smbpasswd` again (unless you re-clone Imouto and create a new VM). We should probably just create a samba user during the VM setup, so that people who have the same issue as you don't have to run the command.

As for the pull request you mentioned, I think you only created a branch, not a pull request yet. But let's see first if login with "\" works for you. And if not, I think gillux will add the creation of the vagrant user in the VM setup. Then the instructions would just need to mention that if there's a credential popup on Windows, the user can either try "\" or "vagrant".

kaŝi la respondojn

I'm also using Windows 10 Pro.

When I try to log in with "\" as the username (and nothing for the password), it just asks me for my username. I type in "vagrant" and it comes up fine, but then again it also comes up fine when I type "vagrant" without going through the "\" step.

I’m glad to know that you got things working! :-)

I can of course make it so that the VM already has a the smb account in case anonymous login doesn’t work. The only thing I’m worried about is how long Windows will remember the credentials you entered. It can be annoying if you have to enter them over and over.

About the "exit" command (or Ctrl+D), I personally consider such information as out of the scope of the documentation of Imouto. It feels like explaining how to clean the dishes in a cake recipe. Instead, I’d rather put a link to some tutorial about how to use the command line.

kaŝi la respondojn

A link to information about the command line would be fine. I just think we should avoid telling someone how to get on without giving them a means to figure out how to get off (cleanly).

** Screenshot of one page from tatoeba.org 2015-02-13 **

https://prnt.sc/okn9y5

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