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How do you edit the romaji line for Japanese sentences?
For now you don't :
http://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/index#message_24
As long as there isn't at least 2 or 3 "hardcore contributor" in Japanese, I will not implement the possibility to edit the romaji.
That's your decision. But do note that there are some very wrong romaji entries.
Don't worry, I'm very aware of this. I just think that people can wait to have 99,99% reliable romaji.
And there used to be a warning tooltip, when you moved your mouse over the romaji, that said it was not reliable... but you made me notice that it's not there anymore. I guess we took it out by mistake while cleaning our code.
You say that as if we are now at 99.98% accuracy. If you intend to have this project be a serious attempt for people to learn, please hide the Romaji if it's not going to be fixable. Currently, much of it is an abomination of on/kun mixups, and idiosyncratic spacing. Any beginners will just be confused by it, and anyone who knows how wrong it is will be frustrated by it. Also, what if a Japanese sentence is wrong? The romaji will be completely different, with added, subtracted, or moved words. If nothing else, add Romaji as a "Language". Long-term however, we're going to need some solution. I assume Chinese has the same issue, and Shanghainese likely does or will, too (I haven't seen any Shanghainese with ruby text yet). Eventually we'll be swimming in meta-languages. I'd say just nuke all romanization until it's done right. Also, doesn't wwwjdict already have every example sentence broken down into kana? I've used it in the past, but it was far too long ago for me to remember.
"Also, what if a Japanese sentence is wrong? The romaji will be completely different, with added, subtracted, or moved words."
I said this before I discovered where the romaji was coming from, forgot to go back and remove it before I posted, oops.
in fact chinese doesn't have the same issue
the problem with japanese romanization in tatoeba, is that it come from Kakasi, which is no longer a "living project", so we have no way to report the error to someone, as nobody maintain it anymore,
for chinese it comes from adso, develloped by the guy of popupchinese.com, I've regular contact with him, and as he have a strong background in both linguistic and programming, he's tool is really reliable and support by a reliable community
moreover when a bad romnization is found, a new version is released in the day most of the times
so for chinese there's no really problem
for shanghainese yep we will need to make it editable for the simple reason currently there's just no tool do this automatically :p (I'm working wit the adso guy to support shanghainese, but as I don't expect reliable result before a long time, I will make it editable)
for Japanese, I let Trang answers, as I don't speak japanese at all
Well, by "problem" I meant that the ruby can't be edited. So it does then? I understand that the mitigation of the problem is better for Chinese, but it's still read-only, correct? I also know that it's easier for Chinese, since the reading variations are more predictable, less common, and just plain easier to get right.
no it's not, and to be honnest i don't know if it's requested for chinese (for shanghainese absolutly it will need)
as I used adso also for other works than Tatoeba, and even in tatoeba, my chinese friends as not reported me yet a single sentence with a bad romanization, so I think letting people able to edit chinese will bring more drawbacks than advantages
* if a error is reported, i will notify it to adso guy, and waiting, the patch, we can add an hardcoded pinyin for the sentence
* if a chinese learner show a sentence where a chinese character has a very rare pronunciation, he will maybe correct it , thinking it's wrong, which is not intented
* the chinese romanization use characters with tones, and most of them cannot be input directly, neither with a IME
but after things are never stated for ever, and if we see the amount of errors from adso is too large to be covered by our current way of working, then we will make it editable
what do you think ?
(I only speak about shanghainese and chinese)
I've replied to Paul regarding the issue of romaji:
http://tatoeba.org/wall/index#message_223
> Also, doesn't wwwjdict already have every example sentence broken down into kana
Not exactly broken down into kana. It looks more like this: 誰も[01] が 私|1(わたし)[01] は|1 間違う{間違っている} と|1 言う{いった}
For this sentence: 誰もが私は間違っているといった。
But I know I could use this to make the romaji more reliable.