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AlanF_US AlanF_US 2019. augusztus 15. 2019. augusztus 15. 16:10:49 UTC link Link a hozzászóláshoz

I'm taking Thanuir's suggestion to start a new thread based on danepo's post about Clozemaster, which uses sentences from the Tatoeba corpus ( https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/sh...#message_32447 ). danepo wrote:

> Here are som extracts from user reviews on the Android app store:
>> I was very excited at first about this app, until several native french speakers told me that phrases I'd learned on Clozemaster aren't correct French. Discovering this after having paid for the premium version was extremely disappointing (20181228)
>> The idea of the app is nice, but as I was testing it in Italian i realised there are a lot of mistakes in the translations, at least from Spanish, and that would be only confusing for my students. That's why I'm giving the app just 2 stars (20171102)
> Does the above comments mean that the French sentences on Tatoeba aren't correct French and that there are a lot mistakes in the translations from Spanish into Italian?

My response:

While it's potentially useful to see what people are saying about our corpus (or a subset of it), there's a limit to what we can learn given the absence of examples and statistics, and the difficulty of following up with the people who left the comments. For instance, we don't know whether the sentences criticized by the native French speakers are wrong in the sense of being something no native speaker would ever say, or whether they're something native speakers might say, but only informally.

In my experience with English-to-Russian on Clozemaster, all of the Russian sentences and English sentences that I've seen seem to be correct, and I've seen between 1000 and 1500 sentences altogether. I've complained about a poor match between a Russian sentence and an English translation perhaps 10-15 times. More frequently, I've seen sentences misclassified by assigning the wrong part of speech to a Russian word (for instance, treating the adjective готов like a noun because it has the ов ending characteristic of many nouns in the genitive plural). However, that's not a problem coming from the Tatoeba corpus.

The biggest problem I've seen at Clozemaster has to do with the major theme of the past two weeks, which is the lack of diversity in the Tatoeba corpus, and hence in the third-party apps that take their sentences from it. Since Clozemaster has no sentences with typically Russian names, which are the only ones that are declined, I get no practice in this important part of the language.

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Thanuir Thanuir 2019. augusztus 15. 2019. augusztus 15. 17:43:32 UTC link Link a hozzászóláshoz

I've been learning Danish, and more recently Norwegian, via Anki decks drawing completely or partially from Tatoeba. All the material has been of high quality. Maybe there has a been creative translation here and there.

Incidentally, in the beginning I was confused and amused by the drama going between Tom and Mary, and about why the French language is so important when studying Danish, and where are Mette, Bjørn, Anders, and all the other nice Danish names. Initially I thought that the deck was based on some corpus, and Danes have surprising close connections to France.
Then confusion was dispelled when I encountered Tatoeba and noticed the prevalence of Tom and Mary.

...

I imagine that with French there might also be regional differences. I know Spanish has some.

shekitten shekitten 2019. augusztus 15. 2019. augusztus 15. 21:57:16 UTC link Link a hozzászóláshoz

Some of the user criticisms aren't things we can help. It's not our fault that someone is charging them premium fees for our corpus's content. It's all available for free, created by mostly unpaid volunteers, and any app that is going to charge people money should have some kind of extra vetting process. And contribute the results of that vetting back to the site, ideally, but certainly they should be vetting what they're choosing to charge people money for.