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Cumle #6617224

info_outline Metadata
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Cumleya şima nêamê îlawekerdene çunke cêrênî xora estê.
Cumle #{{vm.sentence.id}} – aîdê {{vm.sentence.user.username}} ya Cumle #{{vm.sentence.id}}
{{vm.sentence.furigana.info_message}} {{vm.sentence.text}}
star Na cumle aîdê qiseykerdoxêko/a ziwanê dayîke ya.
warning Na cumle muteber nîya.
content_copy Cumle kopya bike info Şo rîpelê cumle
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{{transcription.info_message}}
Açarnayîşî
Lînkê nê açarnayîşî wedarne link Bike açarnayîşo raşteraşt chevron_right
{{translation.furigana.info_message}} {{translation.text}} Cumleya mewcûde #{{::translation.id}} sey açarnayîşêk amê îlawekerdene.
edit Nê açarnayîşî pergal bike
warning Na cumle muteber nîya.
content_copy Cumle kopya bike info Şo rîpelê cumle
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warning
{{transcription.info_message}}
Açarnayîşanê açarnayîşan
Lînkê nê açarnayîşî wedarne link Bike açarnayîşo raşteraşt chevron_right
{{translation.furigana.info_message}} {{translation.text}} Cumleya mewcûde #{{::translation.id}} sey açarnayîşêk amê îlawekerdene.
edit Nê açarnayîşî pergal bike
warning Na cumle muteber nîya.
content_copy Cumle kopya bike info Şo rîpelê cumle
subdirectory_arrow_right
warning
{{transcription.info_message}}
{{vm.expandableIcon}} {{vm.sentence.expandLabel}} Hîna tay açarnayîşî

Şiroveyî

Tepan Tepan May 24, 2021 May 24, 2021 at 4:32:46 PM UTC flag Report link Lînko payîdar

tomo lape -> tomo

Raizin Raizin June 4, 2021 June 4, 2021 at 11:23:32 PM UTC flag Report link Lînko payîdar

I think that in the vast majority of cases "my room" means "my bedroom", or "the room I sleep in" (e.g. in a hotel). So in practice, in most cases "tomo lape mi" is perfectly fine, and IMO probably preferable to "tomo mi", which is very easily misunderstood as "my house" / "the place I live".

Also, this sentence already has a link with a German sentence which mentions "Schlafzimmer", so "tomo lape" should not be edited. At most this sentence should be unlinked from the sentences that are not a literal translation. If need be, another new sentence with a correct translation can be added in its place.

But as I argued in the first paragraph, I do not believe that is necessary in this case.

Tepan Tepan June 5, 2021 June 5, 2021 at 11:44:41 AM UTC flag Report link Lînko payîdar

The original Dutch "kamer" was translated by you as "tomo lape", which sounds more like "slaapkamer", or in German "Schlafzimmer" (cf. list's sentence).

If you prefer list's sentence with "Schlafzimmer", I can unlink the original "kamer" sentence. You can add a sentence with "slaapkamer"/"bedroom" if you like.

If you prefer the original sentence with "kamer", please, change "tomo lape" to "tomo", and I will un-link list's sentence and add a translation with "tomo lape" (or you can do that, if you want) to list's sentence.

Raizin Raizin June 7, 2021, June 7, 2021 de ame/ê pergalkerdene June 7, 2021 at 12:18:11 AM UTC, June 7, 2021 at 12:34:02 AM UTC de ame/ê pergalkerdene flag Report link Lînko payîdar

As I said, I believe "tomo lape mi" is a perfectly fine translation of "my room"/"mijn kamer". In most of the probable contexts for the linked sentences, I think it's even preferable to "tomo mi".

In a good Toki Pona translation, often you don't say what is literally said in the original language, but what is meant or implied. In any common real-life situation I can think of where someone would say "my room", they actually mean "my bedroom", "my hotel room", "my dorm room", etc., all of which can be accurately described as a room where you sleep in, i.e. a "tomo lape".

"tomo mi" means "my house" in most contexts and "my room" in some (rarer) contexts.
"tomo lape mi" means "my bedroom" in most contexts, but it can be used in practically all contexts where you would say "my room".

---

PS: I already added translations with "slaapkamer" and "dormĉambro" alongside those with "kamer" and "ĉambro".

Tepan Tepan June 7, 2021 June 7, 2021 at 6:39:26 AM UTC flag Report link Lînko payîdar

"in most of the probable contexts" is not a Tatoeba criterion, is it? If it were so, then "Kial vi estas en mia ĉambro?" would be a perfectly fine translation of "Waarom ben je in mijn slaapkamer?" But you added "Kial vi estas en mia dormĉambro?" kiel tradukon de "Waarom ben je in mijn slaapkamer?"

If you ask me, it would be nice if Tatoeba had such a link between sentences of the same language. ("Kial vi estas en mia ĉambro?" > "Kial vi estas en mia dormĉambro?"), but Toki Pona is not supposed to emulate this relationship putting "tan seme la sina lon tomo lape mi" inbetween.

Raizin Raizin June 9, 2021 June 9, 2021 at 12:24:20 AM UTC flag Report link Lînko payîdar

Okay, I'll put it this way.

Say I was having a party at my house, and I see that one of the guests (that I don't personally know) is in my bedroom. If I said "waarom ben je in mijn slaapkamer?" and the guest said "mi ne parolas la nederlandan," I would repeat in Esperanto "kial vi estas en mia dormĉambro?" If the first sentence I said had been "waarom ben je in mijn kamer?" (instead of "slaapkamer") I would have repeated "kial vi estas en mia ĉambro" instead, because that is a closer translation.

But if the guest spoke Toki Pona, I would have said "sina lon tomo lape mi tan seme?" in *both* cases, and not "sina lon tomo mi tan seme?" because "tomo mi" would be too ambiguous. If I said "sina lon tomo mi tan seme?", it would be pretty likely that the guest would misunderstand that I wanted to know why they're in my house. But I already know why they're in my *house*. I want to know why they're in my *room*. So in Toki Pona specifying the type of room is necessary in this situation to get the intended meaning across.

Therefore I believe that in practice "tomo lape mi" is generally preferable when translating either "mijn kamer" or "mijn slaapkamer". Sure, there may be situations where the "lape" is clear from context and "tomo mi" is enough, but a decently skilled speaker of Toki Pona using this site will probably know for themself when to do that after finding this translation.



Or another way to look at it:

- "mia ĉambro" is a direct equivalent of "mijn kamer", because both can mean "my bedroom", "my hotel room", "my dorm room", "my cabin (in a ship)", etc.
- "dormĉambro" is a direct equivalent of "slaapkamer", because both usually only refer to the chamber you sleep in in your own house, and are in practice very rarely used to mean e.g. "hotel room" or "cabin". (You would normally say "hotelĉambro"/"hotelkamer" or "kajuto"/"kajuit" instead.)
- in my opinion "tomo lape" is *not* a direct equivalent of "dormĉambro" and "slaapkamer", because I think it is perfectly normal to use "tomo lape mi" for "my hotel room" or "my cabin". It is not limited to the room in your house.

So in my opinion "tomo lape mi" already *is* in between "my room" and "my bedroom".

Tepan Tepan June 12, 2021 June 12, 2021 at 9:30:14 AM UTC flag Report link Lînko payîdar

@Raizin
"tomo" means either "house" or "room". That doesn't mean we have to assume context (a party in your house). If I assumed that I only work in my room and go outside my house to sleep in a tend, then I would say "tomo pali" instead. This approach messes up the corpus, and confuses, because "room" is "tomo", as it is written in all dictionaries (not only the official one written by Sonja).

Since you mean to translate "kamer", please change "tomo lape" to "tomo". I'm unlinking the sentences that explicitly talk about "slaapkamer".

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Dekewtişî

Na cumle verî sey açarnayîşê cumleya #6617222Waarom ben jij in mijn kamer? amê îlawekerdene.

sina lon tomo lape mi tan seme?

hetê Raizinra ame îlawekerdene, January 19, 2018

hetê Raizin ra ame girêdayene, January 19, 2018

hetê Raizin ra ame girêdayene, January 19, 2018

hetê Raizin ra ame girêdayene, January 19, 2018

hetê Raizin ra ame girêdayene, January 19, 2018

hetê list ra ame girêdayene, January 26, 2018

hetê Raizin ra ame girêdayene, June 4, 2021

hetê Raizin ra ame girêdayene, June 4, 2021

hetê Tepan ra wedarîya, June 12, 2021

hetê Tepan ra wedarîya, June 12, 2021

hetê Tepan ra ame girêdayene, June 12, 2021

hetê Tepan ra ame girêdayene, June 12, 2021

hetê Tepan ra ame girêdayene, June 12, 2021

hetê Tepan ra ame girêdayene, June 12, 2021

hetê Raizin ra ame girêdayene, March 27, 2022

hetê Raizin ra ame girêdayene, March 27, 2022

hetê Raizin ra ame girêdayene, March 27, 2022