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Cabinets de sacredceltic sus la paret (total 2648)

sacredceltic sacredceltic August 5, 2010 August 5, 2010 at 8:24:09 AM UTC link Permalink

Je suis totalement en désaccord avec ce diktat qui est même tout à fait choquant. En quoi, en effet, l'anglais serait-il davantage "poli" que l'allemand, l'italien, l'espagnol, le français, ...ou toute autre langue ?
La politesse, ça marche dans les 2 sens, donc les anglophones peuvent également faire l'effort de parler d'autres langues ou de se les faire traduire, tout copmme les autres le font. Pourquoi les anglophones feraient-ils cette économie, tandis que les autres en encaisseraient le coût ?
Etes-vous disposés à payer le temps que les autres passent à vous traduire ? Non, bien sûr, donc vous devez partager ce coût.
Ensuite, les capacités des non-natifs anglophones étant constamment remises en cause par les natifs, la communication exclusivement en anglais est inégale, puisque certains s'arrogent le droit de juger le vocabulaire des autres tout en imposant leur propre langue. Les dés sont donc pipés.
Enfin, il arrive dans cette communauté ce qui arrive dans toutes les autres communautés internationales où l'anglais est la seule langue de travail: Il n'y a plus que les anglophones qui aient leur mot à dire.
Les études montrent, en effet, que les organisations internationales ou plusieurs langues sont admises comme langues de travail sont beaucoup plus inclusives et donc plus riches des contributions de davantage de personnes. A l'Organisation Mondiale de la Santé, par exemple, il a été démontré que lorsque les débats étaient en anglais, certaines nationalités n'intervenaient jamais, si bien que leurs travaux ne sont jamais pris en compte. Les organisations exclusivement anglophones sont, au mieux, des organisations borgnes !

sacredceltic sacredceltic August 4, 2010 August 4, 2010 at 10:58:53 PM UTC link Permalink

Ich bin anderer ansicht...

sacredceltic sacredceltic August 4, 2010 August 4, 2010 at 10:33:13 PM UTC link Permalink

Je voudrais savoir si le fait de ne pas indiquer la langue à l'ajout de phrases ralentit le processus d'insertion et sollicite davantage le serveur ou bien si le contrôle est fait de toutes manières.

sacredceltic sacredceltic August 3, 2010 August 3, 2010 at 11:13:19 PM UTC link Permalink

The public vote for translations will always benefit the worst one, as in finance, where bad currency always beats the good one...
For punctuation, I was thinking of only these unnerving ending spaces and dots...

sacredceltic sacredceltic August 3, 2010 August 3, 2010 at 5:23:13 PM UTC link Permalink

Yeah, and this moderator would harrass the contributor tiredlessly...
Well, all this pushes towards an impartial mechanical assessment system. We'll set the scores then...

sacredceltic sacredceltic August 3, 2010 August 3, 2010 at 5:20:41 PM UTC link Permalink

Well, what do you suggest,then ? A poll ?

sacredceltic sacredceltic August 3, 2010 August 3, 2010 at 5:18:01 PM UTC link Permalink

I disagree. I can testify that over all my career working with languages, people systematically overrate their skills, including in their native language.
Make the following test in a meeting with ANY people of different nationalities: Ask if anyone of them doesn't understand proper English. You will be amazed that hardly anyone raise their hands...

sacredceltic sacredceltic August 3, 2010 August 3, 2010 at 5:09:09 PM UTC link Permalink

It follows the present procedure and goes up to a moderator...

sacredceltic sacredceltic August 3, 2010 August 3, 2010 at 4:00:16 PM UTC link Permalink

But how do you assess the "languages with which they are not familiar" in order to raise the message ?
And when you get a million sentences, the moderators will just be drowned!

As for the incitation not to correct, I disagree:
- most people here want to do good and they will if they must. What I see since I'm here, is that most people correct or challenge the suggestions on their sentences very quickly, apart from a few "dead" contributors, which is another issue already raised by xtofu80.
- A batch procedure could check the number of days since an error has been reported and not cleared, and lower the score of the author accordingly.

sacredceltic sacredceltic August 3, 2010 August 3, 2010 at 3:37:21 PM UTC link Permalink

But think: If a "superuser for language L" corrects a layman because he has been granted the rights to do so as a result of this skills-determination-algorithm and makes a mistake, you could always discipline him the same way if he his in turn corrected (maybe with a double sentence...) so his status of "superuser" would recede...
So in any case, it should be working...

sacredceltic sacredceltic August 3, 2010 August 3, 2010 at 3:27:58 PM UTC link Permalink

*to hunt

QED

sacredceltic sacredceltic August 3, 2010 August 3, 2010 at 3:27:13 PM UTC link Permalink

But I think there is a good case for sysko's suggestion of a "to be validated status", because some people (me) would translate very fast on the fly and re-check later on after second thoughts.
For instance, multiple errors in one single sentence are often overlooked when correcting the first one. Only after some time can you re-read the sentence without the focus on the former error and your mind can be free hunt for the others more efficiently.

sacredceltic sacredceltic August 3, 2010 August 3, 2010 at 3:23:03 PM UTC link Permalink

I think the algorithm could be made very simple and straightforward, once we agree on the rules.
It could be something like this:
Each time a sentence is corrected
=> check when the last update took place
=> if it is over x minutes from now (x to be assessed)
==>check if it matches the former version regardless of punctuation and spaces (easy!)
==> if not, +1 in the (un)reliability counter for that sentence.
-end-
It should not load the server much more than the present history functionalities do, I think...

sacredceltic sacredceltic August 3, 2010 August 3, 2010 at 3:16:19 PM UTC link Permalink

it not about "Flat-out forbidden translating into foreign languages", it is about granting the right to correct others, which was my initial proposal.
I agree with you that learners should not not be discouraged. But learned ones should be able to correct them based on their higher skills, which is not the case now.
As there is no technology available to assess the true nationality or descent of anybody, (hopefully!) and 99.99% of natives would never acknowledge their limits, the only path in my view is a mechanical, perfectly impartial approach to the problem.

sacredceltic sacredceltic August 3, 2010 August 3, 2010 at 1:49:41 PM UTC link Permalink

I agree, as a Japanese was just teaching me my own native language, but the situation is more complex as there are illiterate people among the natives as well and there are many people of mixed cultures. So I definitely think a tool is needed and learned natives will become the judges for their iwn languge as a natural consequence.

sacredceltic sacredceltic August 3, 2010 August 3, 2010 at 1:13:46 PM UTC link Permalink

Il suffirait de ne pas compter les corrections qui sont apportées dans les 5 premières minutes et aussi d'ignorer les corrections de ponctuation et capitalisation (sinon j'aurais aussi zéro, sans doute).
Mais le système actuel est sans doute plein d'arbitraire, et si on veut motiver les gens à la qualité, un système objectif est préférable. De plus, les "mauvais" traducteurs ou correcteurs seront tentés de partir, ce qui bénéficiera à la qualité d'ensemble.

sacredceltic sacredceltic August 3, 2010 August 3, 2010 at 12:17:30 PM UTC link Permalink

Vous devriez instaurer un indice de fiabilité des phrases d'un contributeur pour chaque langue dans laquelle il contribue, en fonction du nombre de corrections effectuées sur les phrases qu'il a créées.
Ainsi, vous disposeriez d'un outil objectif d'appréciation des aptitudes linguistiques de chaque contributeur dans chaque langue et pourriez leur allouer des droits de corrections en fonction de cette aptitude et de la langue de la phrase à corriger.
Le seul défaut que je verrais à ce système, c'est qu'il ne faudrait pas compter les phrases "adoptées", car souvent on adopte une phrase pour en corriger une faute qui en masque 1 ou 2 autres derrière qu'on ne voit pas au premier abord par distraction de la principale...

sacredceltic sacredceltic August 3, 2010 August 3, 2010 at 12:44:01 AM UTC link Permalink

une simple dscription fontionnelle sommaire m'irais très bien...Merci!

sacredceltic sacredceltic August 2, 2010 August 2, 2010 at 11:50:52 PM UTC link Permalink

I'm interested in which code you intend to use for autocompletion because I'm also looking for one for myself as well. Do you intend to use some kind of open source plugin ?

sacredceltic sacredceltic August 2, 2010 August 2, 2010 at 2:10:42 PM UTC link Permalink

yes, sorry... I have no objection for the administrator to destroy this...