Mural (5.703 tópicos)
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**Tatoeba UI translation: Stats and a “thank you post"*
As for February 20, 2020 11:00 A.M. BRT (GMT -3)
Languages that got the “Ready for use” status” (all strings have been translated) *
Status of some other languages: *
Italian - 13 strings to translate
German - 19 strings to translate
Spanish - 20 strings to translate
Finnish - 36 strings to translate
Dutch - 46 strings to translate
Japanese - 50 strings to translate
Ukrainian - 110 strings to translate
Arabic - 257 strings to translate
Czech - 357 strings to translate
All status - https://www.transifex.com/tatoe...ite/dashboard/
*These status might change weekly (whenever Tatoeba gets updated).
New language supported (thanks, MarijnKp): Luxembourgish. It’ll be available on the drop-down menu as soon as it get more translations
I’d like to thank Amastan, deniko, fjay69, shekkiten, MarijnKp, Micsmithel, arh, Jepang, Elsofie, small_snow, for joining us on Transifex in order to translate Tatoeba UI (February 8 - February 20, 2020) and all other members that already joined and make a marvelous job. You’ve been doing Tatoeba accessible for everyone in the world. You’ve created a great atmosphere for us (“old” Tatoeba members) and for those who will join us :D
In case you’d like to help us, please read https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...ce-translation and contact me - https://tatoeba.org/eng/private...rite/Ricardo14
PS.: In case you want to join us but your language isn’t listed on Transifex yet, please let me know and I’ll help you to set up things ;).
German got the "Ready for use" status! :D (As for today, February 20th, 2020 10:00 p.m. BRT (GMT -3))
Some more updated status
Dutch - 46 >> *30* strings to translate (16 were translated)
Japanese - 50 >> *31* strings to translate (19 were translated)
Thanks, *everyone* :D
That's very good to hear.
Je me demande ce que pensent les contributeurs français d'avoir traduit "Reviews" en "Révisions". Les deux mots ne sont pas des traductions parfaites l'un de l'autre, et dans le cas qui nous intéresse, la fonctionnalité, il me semble, ne concerne absolument pas des "révisions".
Je peux me tromper donc j'aimerais bien avoir vos avis.
"Critiques," ou "Commentaires", peut-être?
**Adding sentences to lists in new sentence design**
I have deployed on the dev website the implementation of the list feature in the new sentence design. I think it's more or less complete and I will need some feedback.
The list feature in the new sentence design is quite different from the old one. Please try it out and let me know if it does feel better to use (or at least not worse).
Dev website: https://dev.tatoeba.org/
Note that you will need to enable the new sentence design in your Settings.
You may want to precise that what needs testing is the "Add to list" button in the new sentence design. Not the whole "list feature". Right?
Yes, not the whole list feature. Just the "Add to list" button in the new sentence design.
I've quickly checked the functionality on PC and smartphone, and the feeling is good. Some remarks:
- "CONFIRM" might be more intuitive than "CLOSE". Close has this "cancel" feeling, giving the impression that our changes will be lost, and looking for the saving option.
- Only three sentences displayed is two few, in my opinion. It forces to scroll and the space is too narrow to be able to follow the scrolling comfortably.
- I don't know if the displayed lists are in any specific order right now, but it may give a better feeling if they were listed in a meaningful way, i.e. in alphabetical order.
> "CONFIRM" might be more intuitive than "CLOSE". Close has this
> "cancel" feeling, giving the impression that our changes will be lost,
> and looking for the saving option.
But at the same time, I wouldn't want to give the impression that you must click on that button to save your selection of lists. The sentences are already being added as soon as you check the checkbox.
> Only three sentences displayed is two few, in my opinion. It forces to scroll
> and the space is too narrow to be able to follow the scrolling comfortably.
We can increase to 5 items. I'm not sure how many items would be enough for you?
> I don't know if the displayed lists are in any specific order right now
Currently it's ordered this way:
- If you have selected a list before, then the first item will always be the last list that you selected.
- Otherwise, the lists are divided in two categories: your lists, other collaborative lists. Your lists are displayed first.
- Within each category, the lists are ordered by "modified" date (last modified first).
It looks very nice and feels intuitive! A few comments.
Open the box, type something, close the box, open it again: the text I entered is still there. I think it should be cleared.
I don’t like the wording "Your most recent lists" because it’s both unclear and inaccurate. "Your" suggests that I am the owner, while it’s not the case: other people’s lists can show up too (for example, if the last selected list is a collaborative list). "recent" is also unclear: what is recent? Last recently created? Last recently seen?" Finally, lists that are not "recent" in any way appear too, just because I’m the creator.
It looks like when the sentence already belongs to a list, the list doesn’t show up. I didn’t expect that because you are using the checkbox pattern. Instead, after clicking the "add to list" button, or after typing something, I expected to see lists that this sentence already belongs to showing up as checked. Not seeing a list showing up also makes me wonder I made a typo or something.
It looks like you’re using bold to indicate "you’re the owner". This wasn’t really easy to understand for me because the first time I opened the box, it only showed my own lists, so everything was in bold, so I had nothing to compare that could have helped me guess the meaning. There might be a better way to indicate that; or do we really need to indicate that information after all?
The button name "create" is inaccurate because it both creates a list and add the sentence to it. I have no suggestion for a better and short enough wording though.
There is a substantial lag between clicking the "create" button and seeing the result of that action. I think a loading spinner would make the process feel smoother.
I guess the "(last selected)" label is a remain of the old design? I don’t think this feature makes sense in the new design because it’s a multi-selection list and you can type to search anyway. When first opening the box, the entire list could be consisting of "last selected" lists sorted by "last selected first".
> Open the box, type something, close the box, open it again: the text I entered
> is still there. I think it should be cleared.
> I don’t like the wording "Your most recent lists" because it’s both unclear
> and inaccurate. "Your" suggests that I am the owner, while it’s not the case
It's actually almost the case. The initial items displayed are only your own lists, with the exception that the very first item can be any list that you have selected last.
To explain how it ended up this way, I first decided to keep the same order as in the old design:
- the current user's lists first (ordered alphabetically)
- then all the collaborative lists (ordered alphabetically)
However, displaying hundreds of item in a md-list leads to pretty poor performances. The sentence component would take too long to render. So my first thought was to display only the current user's lists and have the collaborative lists only appear upon search. But some users could have hundreds of lists, so that won't help. Hence the idea of displaying only the current user's lists, but limited to an arbitrary amount (I chose 10).
So when you open the list form for the first time, you will only see your own lists with a maximum of 10 lists. I decided to order the lists by `modified` date under the assumption that you'll more likely want to add a sentence in a list which has been more recently modified.
That's why the subheader text is "Your most recent lists". But it's true that "recent" is quite ambiguous. A more accurate subheader text could be "Your last selected list (if any) and last updated lists", but it sounds a bit awkward...
Aside of that, I'm not fully satisfied of this solution either and I did consider displaying the 10 last selected lists ordered by last selected first, as you suggested, but I chose to leave this for another iteration together with the next point:
> It looks like when the sentence already belongs to a list, the list doesn’t
> show up. I didn’t expect that because you are using the checkbox pattern.
Yes, when a sentence already belongs to a list, it won't show up, except if you have just added the sentence to the list and haven't refreshed the page yet.
I agree it's confusing. For me, I have to say it's not really the checkbox pattern that causes the confusion. I've had this issue already in the old design.
If I have a list "test" and I open a dropdown on a sentence and don't see "test" in there, I don't instinctively think "Right, I already added my sentence to that list". I instead scan a couple of times through the items in the dropdown to make sure I didn't miss it, then I sometimes even end up thinking "did my list get deleted?" or doubting that I ever had such a list. Then only, I remember that "test" isn't displayed because the sentence has already been added to that list.
The target design should definitely be that all available lists are displayed and the checkbox is checked if the list already contains the sentence.
> It looks like you’re using bold to indicate "you’re the owner".
> There might be a better way to indicate that; or do we really
> need to indicate that information after all?
I couldn't think of a good way so I went for the bold text since we have a similar pattern with the language selector (languages in bold are the ones in your profile).
It's true that it's not really necessary. I made the text bold when the implementation had all lists displayed (instead of just 10 lists) so at that point it made more sense.
The only case would be if someone else made a collaborative list that has the exact same name as one of your lists. Then you would need some ways to distinguish the your list from the other list. But this case is better solved if we add somewhere the name of the creator of the list.
> The button name "create" is inaccurate because it both creates a list
> and add the sentence to it. I have no suggestion for a better and short
> enough wording though.
"Create and add" or "Add to new list" were two possibilities I thought about. But in the end I felt it was easy enough to understand that "Create" implicitly means "Create list and add sentence to that list". The context in which the list is created leads you anyway to expect that the sentence will be added to that list. And if your intention was only to create the list but not add the sentence, then you can easily remove the sentence by unchecking the checkbox.
> There is a substantial lag between clicking the "create" button
> and seeing the result of that action. I think a loading spinner
> would make the process feel smoother.
Will do. I didn't feel any lag in my tests but it doesn't cost much to add a loader.
> I guess the "(last selected)" label is a remain of the old design?
Yes, the "last selected" list is meant to replace the behavior in the old design where the last selected list can be preselected in the dropdown the next time you load a page with a sentence. This is not the default behavior though, it's an option you have to enable in your Settings ("Remember the last list...").
This feature saves you time when you are in the process of filling up a specific list and are browsing/searching sentences for it.
Again, the final behavior should be that you have by default your last selected lists displayed (instead of your last updated lists), but that would be for another iteration.
What differences are we supposed to see?
I have the settings to show the new design.
However, I didn't see any difference.
These are the 2 tests that I did.
I added this sentence to a list.
And I added a test sentence to this list from the list's page.
Both of these things seem to be the same as they've always been.
Tested on a Macintosh, using Chrome.
You have to go to a page where the new design is implemented, for example a search results page. From there, the "add to list" button is the thing to be tested.
Here's a link people can use to test this, if you have your settings on the dev site to show the new design.
Search for "dog."
I tested it with the first sentence on the above search results.
I liked that fact that I could create a new list to put the sentence on, and also add the sentence to 2 other lists at the same time.
I agree with someone's comment above who said the "close" is not intuitive. Perhaps, "add to list(s)" or "confirm", or even "submit" would be a better wording.
The problem with using a single, static button caption, whether it's "close" or "confirm", is that the function of the button differs depending on whether any checkboxes have been selected. If none are selected, the button acts like a "close", but if at least one is selected, the button acts like a "confirm". One option would be to change the title of the button dynamically depending on whether any checkboxes are selected.
The situation is complicated because of another issue: It wasn't immediately clear how to cancel out of the whole process of adding to lists, other than by deselecting every list that I had already selected (which is not too painful, unless people are going to try to add sentences to large numbers of lists at once, and then back out of it). It seems that clicking again on the list icon suspends the "add to list" operation, and going to another page and then back to the original one will deselect the items that had originally been selected. If we think that people will figure this out, either intuitively or via experimentation, fine. Otherwise, maybe we should have two buttons, "Cancel" and "OK", perhaps with the "OK" button disabled unless one or more items is selected.
I took into account the feedback and deployed some changes on the dev website.
For more details about the implementation, see the description of the corresponding pull request:
Thanks for testing!
** Browsing and Translating Sentences with Audio **
** Stats & Graphs **
Tatoeba Stats, Graphs & Charts have been updated:
you're welcome :-)
I like this the "show maximum ___ translation languages" option.
Screenshot for the top 2 languages and the top 10 languages with translations linked to these 2 languages.
Thank you so much!!!
Don't mention it :-)
I’d like to ask a question to Mandarin Chinese speakers about the word 什麼.
As a beginner in Chinese, I’d like to know the differences between 甚麼 and 什麼.
As a developer of Tatoeba, I’d like to know if the automatic script conversion is correct in these sentences:
#829202 什麼 (trad.) → 什么 (simp.) This is fine.
#465906 什么 (simp.) → 甚麼 (trad.) I’m not sure about this. As far as I understand 甚麼 is an equivalent word, but strictly speaking, can 甚 be considered as a traditional form of 什?
#3364516 甚麼 (trad.) → 甚么 (simp.) This looks wrong.
> I’d like to know the differences between 甚麼 and 什麼.
They're different traditional ways to write the same word. The Taiwanese Ministry of Education's dictionary lists quotations from classical literature for both:
for 什麼: http://dict.revised.moe.edu.tw/...d=Z00000131338
for 甚麼: http://dict.revised.moe.edu.tw/...d=Z00000131339
It doesn't actually say which form is used where. I think 什麼 is more common in Taiwan and 甚麼 is more common in Hong Kong, but don't quote me on this, it might be exactly the other way around.
There's only one simplified form, 什么. Because both 甚麼 and 什麼 simplify to 什么, 甚 must be considered a traditional (variant) form of 什.
甚 is also a simplified character, e.g. in words like 甚至. This is likely the reason behind the incorrect simplification 甚麼 (trad.) → 甚么 (simp.): sinoparserd doesn't recognize 甚麼 as a single word that needs to be transformed as a whole, but simplifies each character individually.
See also https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/2007
I asked a Mainland Chinese friend about this, who in turn asked a few Taiwanese and one Hong Konger. The Taiwanese mostly thought that 什麽 is more common because it's easier to write and 甚麽 is only common in formal context. Some also thought that 甚么 is acceptable, even if rare. The Hong Konger on the other hand thought that using 什麽 was a sign of machine-translated text and that most people would write 甚麽, except out of laziness when handwriting.
I think it would be advantageous if there would be a mechanism that the native speakers of a language somehow could be notified (if they wish) if some vocabulary item (i.e., wanted sentences) in their language is added.
By my experiences most vocabulary items remain unnoticed (unless the native speakers regulary check the items).
I have had a look at the vocabulary items that need sentences and most of them are relatively rare words. It's quite hard even for a native speaker to make sentences with such words. Such words are sometimes rare even in the largest online corpora.
I find this site useful for example sentences.
Unfortunately, it's monolingual.
Hi, similar to sentencedict, I also use http://www.use-in-a-sentence.com , which is very useful to find sentences used in context. Also, in the site there are some exercises to improve academic English Vocabulary...
Site sizin mi? Domain sorgusunda Türkiye'den alındığı görünüyor. Mantık güzel, ama tasarım biraz daha geliştirilse fena olmaz. İçeriği zenginleştirmek için buradaki cümlelerden de faydalanılabilir.
I've opened an issue in the bugtracker
What's New on Tatoeba? - Your weekly recap °4
※ The implementation of the new design continues, this time with the favorites and adoption features! Thanks to TRANG for her work.
※ Improved cleaning of contributions by removing all Unicode whitespaces. Various Unicode characters are being used in contributions, posing unnecessary issues to duplicate detection and other potential script-oriented applications. Thanks to TRANG and CK for first reporting and to AndiPersti (on GitHub) for implementing the cleaning method.
※ Improved consistency of settings and tooltips strings. Thanks to Aiji for the modifications.
※ gillux implemented some optimization and correction of the code at the back of Tatoeba. Among other things, you may see the homepage load faster than before! Thanks to him for the work.
※ gillux also improved the way furigana are generated and displayed on Japanese sentences.
※ Yorwba wrote a script to have language names displayed in the interface language even if they are not translated on Transifex yet! Thanks to him for the work.
ON THE WALL
※ Ricardo opened another discussion about the translation of Tatoeba's interface. https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/show_message/34147
※ CK gave various stats and URLs to search for sentences. https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/show_message/34126 https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/show_message/34154 https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/show_message/34157
※ Thanuir asked for some French sentences about the adjective "borné" in a mathematical context. https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/show_message/34167
※ Ricardo asked for some French sentences about traveling. https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/show_message/34171
※ Ergulis was wondering how a sentence becomes an orphan. https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/show_message/34196
20 218 sentences added this week (from one export to another). You can check daily activity on this page https://tatoeba.org/eng/contrib...ivity_timeline
If you'd like to help to the development of Tatoeba, report issues, or are just curious, have a look at the GitHub repository: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2
If you want to help us translate the website to your language, you can join us on Transifex: https://www.transifex.com/tatoe...ite/dashboard/ and check this article on the wiki https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...ce-translation
Fun fact: In the Oxford English Dictionary, the letter "E" accounts for about 11% of the letters. The least frequent one is "Q".
Last week recap: https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/show_message/34125
See this recap on the blog: https://blog.tatoeba.org/2020/0...y-recap-4.html
Thanks a lot for this wonderful Tatoeba recap! :D
> 20 218 sentences added this week (from one export to another).
14,021 of last week's sentences were contributed by 120 members in their native languages. 69% (14,021 / 20,218)
469 were Esperanto
2,014 of last week's English sentences were added by non-native speakers. 72% of these were by the same person.
1,390 of last week's English sentences were contributed by 17 native speakers.
The member who added the most native language sentences last week was marafon with 1,392 Russian sentences.
About 9,660 links were created between sentences.
There were 19,318 new lines in the links.csv file.
Links are listed twice in the file, like this.
1,679 of last week's Russian sentences were contributed by 13 native speakers.
1,624 of last week's Portuguese sentences were contributed by 12 native speakers.
I noticed a change in the copy-and-pasting.
I wonder if this was an intentional change.
Before, when we copied translations, we got the 3-letter code for the language.
See this comment for an example.
Now, we don't.
See this comment for an example.
I think having the 3-letter code was useful, especially when multiple languages were involved, and when viewing in the comments stream, rather than on each individual page.
I always found that the three-letter code got in my way.
And I've never understood why people were copy-pasting like that.
However, I still have this behavior. I'm using Firefox. See
More than twenty people.
Більш двадцяти людей.
Plus que 20 personnes.
Più di venti persone.
I often copy-paste sentences when I write comments to suggest modifications to a sentence. I use the "copy" button to get the sentence into the clipboard, paste it twice, and then modify the second occurrence (which is easier than typing it all).
When the "copy" button was introduced, I stopped using Firefox's built-in functions to select and copy sentences, so the behavior no longer annoyed me. However, it probably surprises people who don't use that button.
It still works the way it used to on my Mac with Firefox, but not with Chrome, Safari, or Opera.
I was wondering how a sentence actually becomes an orphan. Is it because of someone's deleting an account?
Sorry for the lame question which is maybe answered in FAQ or somewhere else, and I just overlooked it or didn't read at all.
1. People can release their sentences.
A number of members do this when they contribute in a non-native language, so a native speaker can adopt them.
2. Many of the English and Japanese "orphans" are sentences imported from the Tanaka Corpus.
Thanks for the explanation.
For reference: https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...ck-start#adopt