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留言板 (7,425 個對話)
gillux
1 天前
Tamajeq1286
2 天前
AlanF_US
2 天前
rul
2 天前
carlosalberto
2 天前
LeviHighway
2 天前
Ergulis
3 天前
AlanF_US
3 天前
AlanF_US
3 天前
AlanF_US
3 天前
Hello @admins, my friend Ervin Hogdson sent a request for adding the Rama language. This is spoken in the Caribbean coast of Nicaragua, it's a Chibchan language. I don't know if here it the right place to ask, I hope I am not inappropriate. I just want to follow up. I also know you guys are too busy doing other stuff.
Thanks for checking in with us.
There is a page that covers the process of making a language request:
https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...nguage-request
It's part of the Tatoeba wiki, which means you can find it by using the link "Tatoeba Wiki" at the bottom of any page.
From the introduction: "A new language should be requested only if the requester is planning to add a substantial number of sentences in that language."
Ervin should set up a Tatoeba account and follow the procedure described on the page.
Thanks. He has followed all the steps required. I will let him know that he needs to write more sentences so it is substantial for Tatoeba.
There may be some communication problem because it seems we have not received any request about Rama on team@tatoeba.org. If email does not work, your friend can also post the request here on the Wall.
I extend my sincere thanks and appreciation to the dear Tatoeba team for adding the Tawallammat tamajaq language to their wonderful website. I hope you will complete the work by adding the sentences I have sent you. Many thanks and appreciation to the dear Tatoeba team.
@Ergulis
When translating a sentence into multiple languages with the invaluable help of AI, I not only improve my knowledge of those languages but also give Tatoeba users the pleasure of reading different interpretations (since every translation is an interpretation) of that text.
However, you also break the site policy, which can be seen under "Rules and Guidelines" (via the "Tatoeba Wiki" link at the bottom of every page):
https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...tificial-intel
:::
Do not add sentences generated by artificial intelligence.
Generative artificial intelligence using large language models ("AI" for short) does not respect copyright. It also violates Tatoeba's central purpose of providing sentences generated directly by humans. Thus, adding sentences generated by AI is not allowed.
Does this include using AI to check grammar and naturality? As long as you don't add an AI rewrite of your sentence either?
I've prompted my LLM as follows
"the rules of tatoeba have changed to disallow sentences generated by AI. please don't rewrite any of my sentences, but just tell me what's wrong with them"
It responded
"Understood. For sentence checks, I’ll avoid rewriting your sentence unless you explicitly ask for a corrected version.
I’ll just tell you what’s wrong, for example:
“Wrong verb form,” “wrong case,” “unnatural word choice,” “missing article,” “not idiomatic,” etc.
And if a sentence is fine, I’ll just say it’s fine."
Is this an OK use of AI on Tatoeba?
I appreciate your flexibility and willingness to ask questions.
People should be taking steps to make sure that their sentences are as good as possible. Ideally they should be focusing on contributing sentences in languages they know very well, and also taking steps such as contacting a native speaker directly or marking their sentences "@needs native check" when they are uncertain about something. Catching errors is an acceptable way of using AI. In particular, it doesn't raise copyright concerns. However, if contributors find themself frequently having to rely on AI, it's a sign that they should focus on contributing sentences in languages they know better.
People should be taking steps to make sure that their sentences are as good as possible."
Does this mean that the final judgment on sentence quality rests solely with the sentence owner? Even if other contributors have objections, and even if the owner is not a native speaker—or perhaps has absolutely no knowledge of the language they are contributing to—should the final say still be left entirely to them?
That's almost the opposite of what I meant. I meant that people should take responsibility for making their sentences as good as they can, and the best way to do that is to only contribute in languages they know very well. They can also ask native-level speakers, or AI, for feedback, but that comes with problems, so it's best not to put themselves in a situation where they have to do that very often.
We do not have a principle that the final judgment on sentence quality rests solely with the sentence owner. That would be unworkable.
A IA e o Esperanto
Pedi ao Google Tradutor que traduzisse para o Esperanto a frase: "Que maravilha é a Inteligência Artificial!" Ele me deu: "Kiel mirinda estas Artefarita Inteligenteco!" Então lhe pedi que traduzisse, também para o Esperanto, a frase: "Que maravilha é o Intelecto Artificial!" E ele me deu a mesma resposta: "Kiel mirinda estas Artefarita Inteligenteco!" Deduzo, portanto, que não consta do dicionário da máquina a expressão "artefarita intelekto", que encontro em Tatoeba como a tradução correta (ou mais adequada) de "inteligência artificial". Já sugeri, inúmeras vezes, que essa IA adote "artefarita intelekto" como tradução de "inteligência artificial", mas até agora não obtive sucesso. O deepL, que às vezes gera traduções de melhor nível que as do Google, infelizmente não trabalha com o Esperanto, pelo menos na versão gratuita a que eventualmente recorro.
If you use something like ChatGPT or Claude, you can instruct it to always translate the phrase with "artefarita intelekto" and it will do it just for you.
https://tatoeba.org/zh-tw/user/profile/Adelpa
This user's behavior is making me a bit worried. He's contributing sentences in at least 12 languages including those they completely have no idea of.
This user has been emphasizing diversity, but personally I see no good of their behavior of mass addition to multiple languages.
This is a fair concern. As someone who contributes in a lot of languages (and asks AI to check the grammar and naturalness for me), I'd be willing to limit my contributions to conlangs, Latin, English, Spanish, Hebrew and Yiddish if everyone else does something similar.
I'd even be willing to limit to conlangs, Latin, and English (my native language) if everyone else limits their contributions similarly.
Apart from Adelpa, the user I can think of who most likely does something similar to me is @carlosalberto.
I believe that @carlosalberto is a man whose passion for languages is obvious. I also feel that his knowledge of languages he uses here on Tatoeba is true. Considering his age, I really appreciate his work. Also, his sentences are cool.
I'm afraid he isn't the only one here to do it. I wonder what Adelpa's native language is, as it isn't clear from his profile. Personally, I'm not irritated by such doings at all. In my opinion, it is everyone's business how they translate as long as the rules are observed.
I also think that those people probably use translators or AI because it is highly unlikely for someone to be fluent in so many languages. It's my speculation, though. The question is what motivates a person to translate in this way.
Rather than discuss other contributors on the Wall, it's better to resolve issues related to them by first communicating with them in private, but if that's not practical, you can can send an email to community-admins@tatoeba.org or a private message to TatoebaAdmins. See the "Code of Conduct" page:
https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...t-bad-behavior
@Adelpa has enabled email notifications, so the fact that I've tagged him/her means that he/she should see this discussion.
I think my post might have been misunderstood a bit. I don't have issues with anybody; there is no reason for that. As I stated in my previous post, it is everyone's business which languages they translate.
I've been on Tatoeba since 2018, and it has never occurred to me to criticize someone's contributions here.
Once I saw some insulting sentences denigrating a nation or people, I marked them, and they have surely been dealt with, their authors included. Those are issues I have a problem with.
I want to say this community is more like a family to me. I enjoy being here. In my opinion, there is a friendly atmosphere on this platform, and members in general have a good mutual relationship; they respect each other.
I reacted just out of curiosity.
@AlanF_US
OK.
Thank you for your understanding.
這則訊息的內容因違反我們的站規，所以已經隱藏。僅管理員和訊息作者可以查看。
I can't search for sentences currently. It give me: "An error occurred while performing the search. If the problem persists, please let us know and include the error code "6a536d7be6cc8" in your message."
Does anyone else also have this problem?
@Tom9358 Hello, i have this problem, too. I've tried several languages, but the outcome is still the same. The random sentences feature also doesn't work properly.
Exact same problem here.
Same here with "translate sentences" and "advanced search", but "browse by language" is working.
Same error
The search is now working again. Sorry for the inconvenience!
Hey! Weet iemand of er een alternatief bestaat voor https://tatoeba.j-langtools.com/transtop/ ? Die pagina is sinds maart niet meer bijgewerkt.
You could send the Tatoeba user sharptoothed (the maintainer of that page) a private message.
I've put together a "linguistic stress test" of sentences demonstrating various aspects of English grammar, for comparative purposes.
We have more than one of these already (a famous one is the "apple is red" series), but if you're bored and looking for useful sentences to translate, here are some you can work on: https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...&direction=asc
Thank you, this is very helpful. How did you decide which sentences to add?
I'll come clean, it was mostly a matter of prompt engineering. I asked for 50 sentences showing the broad grammar of English for the purpose of comparative grammar study:
"generate 50 english sentences that would broadly serve the purpose of analyzing the grammar of other languages when translated. try to cover all the major aspects of grammar, if not every subtlety"
The LLM showed its "work," though, in that it said which aspect of English grammar each sentence was an example of.
Note: The below sentences may differ slightly from those in the list.
The dog sleeps. — intransitive verb, present tense
The girl opened the door. — transitive verb, definite object
The teacher gave the child a book. — ditransitive verb
There is a mouse under the table. — existence + location
The cup is on the shelf. — copula + locative phrase
The sky became dark. — change of state
My brother is a doctor. — identity/class membership
This soup tastes strange. — sensory predicate
I have three sisters. — possession + numeral
The woman’s bicycle is broken. — possessive noun phrase
Tom eats rice every day. — habitual aspect
Mary is reading a letter. — progressive aspect
They have already left. — perfect aspect
I had finished before you arrived. — past perfect + temporal clause
We will meet tomorrow. — future time
She used to live near the river. — past habitual
He was still sleeping when I called. — past progressive + interruption
I have been waiting for two hours. — perfect progressive + duration
The bread was eaten by the birds. — passive voice
The window got broken during the storm. — result passive / accidental event
Do you know the answer? — yes/no question
Who broke the vase? — subject question
Whom did Mary invite? — object question
Where are you going? — question with motion verb
Why didn’t Tom come? — negative wh-question
Mary asked whether we were ready. — embedded yes/no question
I don’t know what he wants. — embedded wh-clause
Close the door. — imperative
Don’t touch that knife. — negative imperative
Let’s leave before sunset. — hortative / first-person plural command
If it rains, we will stay home. — real conditional
If I had known, I would have helped. — counterfactual past conditional
Although Tom was tired, he kept working. — concession
Because Mary was hungry, she bought some bread. — causal clause
I left before the children woke up. — temporal subordination
After washing his hands, Tom sat down. — non-finite clause / same subject
The man who lives next door is a musician. — subject relative clause
The book that I borrowed is missing. — object relative clause
The woman whose son called me is here. — possessive relative clause
What you said surprised everyone. — headless/free relative
Tom saw himself in the mirror. — reflexive pronoun
Tom and Mary blamed each other. — reciprocal pronoun
I gave my friend her keys. — pronoun gender + indirect object
Nobody saw anything. — negative quantification
Every student read a different book. — universal quantifier + distributivity
Some children like both cats and dogs. — indefinite plural + coordination
Only Mary understood the joke. — focus particle
Even Tom understood the joke. — scalar focus particle
This box is heavier than that one. — comparison
Mary is the tallest person in the room. — superlative
Of course I subjected it to my own scrutiny before posting it here... it just happened not to need much further editing this time.
Hey! Nice list! I'm sure it contains a very large portion of important aspects of English grammar. If somebody would like to tackle this in a research-grounded way at some point, perhaps the following reference might be of value. This paper comes with a collection of all sorts of English ungrammaticality:
Sprouse, Jon, Carson T. Schütze, & Diogo Almeida. 2013. A comparison of informal and formal acceptability judgments using a random sample from Linguistic Inquiry 2001-2010. Lingua 134: 219-248.
Jon Sprouse provides an xlsx with a list of example sentences here (under Journal Articles): https://www.jonsprouse.com/research.html (control+f for "formal acceptability" and download the materials spreadsheet)
Each ungrammatical sentence has a grammatical counterpart, so I think that means that all grammatical aspects listed in the spreadsheet have a sentence that is grammatical according to that aspect.
I used it for my master's thesis back in early 2023, when ChatGPT was brand new and we were wondering if it would be able to a. tell us whether a given sentence is grammatical or not, b. repair it and c. explain why it was ungrammatical.
The conclusion was that a. went quite well, b. went alright, and c. it did quite badly - just like humans.
Thanks for this!
It seems I largely use it for the right purposes, then... other than this list, I mainly use it to check if my sentences are grammatical before I put them up here.