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Cumleyanê sacredceltic biaçarne

Mesajê sacredceltic yê Dêsî (pêro pîya 2648)

sacredceltic sacredceltic September 20, 2010 September 20, 2010 at 4:09:39 PM UTC link Lînko payîdar

By the way, Demetrius, I fully agree with you, and I deplore you didn't support me when I was holding the exact same view and was trying to defend it earlier in discussions with CK and Swift.
I see much more redundancy in Tatoeba with endless repetitions of surnames, dates, units and counters than with one word sentences.
I particularly fully support the idea that not all languages are equal in terms of number of words needed to mean something. A good example is this one:
http://tatoeba.org/fre/sentences/show/519570

This is very frequent in Esperanto, since this language has inner word construction (and decoding) rules that enable to create extremely sophisticated words that remain plain to read. I can actually build words in Esperanto that I cannot in any other language including my own native, French.
Since not all languages are yet present in Tatoeba, how do we know that many words are not needed in one or several of these missing languages to mean one word in the existing languages?
I actually find this obsessive one word sentence hunting by Tatoeba moderators quite pathological and it is one of the several reasons I stopped contributing lately.
This is all the more pathological, since thousands of duplicates, wrong translations and spelling mistakes abound here. Why on Earth are moderators so pernickety when it comes to one-word sentences, when they otherwise tolerate this huge mess?
Since I joined Tatoeba, I haven't seen the deduplication script run once! I ended up believing it is a myth!
Lately, Globish has seen thousands of new contributions, making it the number 1 language ahead of Japanese, but I am convinced, from what I see daily, 90% must be duplicates.
Every newcomer who has a year of school Globish keys in always the same phrases, as everyone knows.
So I can't see how one-word sentences actually pose a problem (technical or other) with such massive clutter. Actually, it should be new Globish phrases altogether that should be banned !

sacredceltic sacredceltic September 20, 2010 September 20, 2010 at 12:04:17 PM UTC link Lînko payîdar

I see a major gap between Shtooka and Tatoeba: Words are not always pronounced the same when they stand alone and in the middle of other words. The prime example is French. You can't properly speak and understand French if you don't understand that a word changes their pronunciation when it is followed or preceded by another word which is called a "liaison" and is a major difficulty for foreigners to make out words when they listen to French (and by the way, I warn you that many French audios on Tatoeba don't actually feature proper liaisons, so are actually useless in terms of education for foreign-learners, as most French people actually pronounce these liaisons very much as I do myself. Actually, not pronouncing a liaison in French is a FULL mistake!)

So for instance:

noun "As" (ace)
1 "un" as => "unNass"
2 "deu" as => "deuZass"
4 "quatre" as => "quatrass"
6 "siss" as=> "siZass"
10 "diss" as=> "diZass"
100 "cen" as=> "cenTass"

Adjective: amer
trop "tro" + amer "amère" => "troPamère"

Adverb : longtemps
longtemps "lontem" + après "aprè" => "longtempZaprè"

In many instances, if one doesn't pronounce the liaisons in French, or pronounces it incorrectly, it will not make oneself understood or something entirely different will be understood.

sacredceltic sacredceltic September 18, 2010 September 18, 2010 at 7:42:37 PM UTC link Lînko payîdar

*ke C tradukas B...

sacredceltic sacredceltic September 18, 2010 September 18, 2010 at 7:35:31 PM UTC link Lînko payîdar

Ne ne ! Mi ne parolas en la nomo de Tatoeba. Mi ne estas moderigulo. Mi estas simpla uzanto de Tatoeba kiu parolas la esperantan.
Sed vi devas kompreni ke "original" signifas nenion en Tatoeba.
La principo estas ke una frazo A tradukas en alia frazo B en alia lingvo. Se la frazo A ankaux tradukas en la frazo C en la sama lingvo aux alia, ne signifas ke C tradukas A. En efekto, multaj frazoj havas ambiguajn signifojn kaj Tatoeba volas reprezenti cxiujn. Sed se vi ne aprobas tradukon, vi povas protesti kun komentoj kaj la moderiguloj moderigos. Ili povas sxangxi la tradukon aux, pli ofte, malligi la frazojn kiujn ne tradukas.

sacredceltic sacredceltic September 18, 2010 September 18, 2010 at 6:39:40 PM UTC link Lînko payîdar

Teorie, Tatoeba rekomendas nur rektan, senperan tradukon. Ne konsideru malrektan tradukon http://blog.tatoeba.org/2010/02...eba.html#rule3

sacredceltic sacredceltic September 18, 2010 September 18, 2010 at 5:28:32 PM UTC link Lînko payîdar

Jes sed fusxa traduka eble estas ankaux valida frazo...
Kiam traduko estas fusxa, necesas korekti aux malligi gxin.

sacredceltic sacredceltic September 18, 2010 September 18, 2010 at 5:04:50 PM UTC link Lînko payîdar

Kial ne ?

sacredceltic sacredceltic September 18, 2010 September 18, 2010 at 4:55:21 PM UTC link Lînko payîdar

Cxiuj frazoj estas egalaj...

sacredceltic sacredceltic September 12, 2010 September 12, 2010 at 12:31:00 AM UTC link Lînko payîdar

1.8 billion is the number of people in the countries where English is an official language. It does in no way represent the number of English-speakers in these countries. India, for example, has 1.2 billion of these so-called "English speakers", except only 2 to 3% of the indian population actually do speak English. Most speak Hindi and Urdu and more often, one of the other 400 languages of the subcontinent. So most of the time, they are trilingual without even counting English...
So this number is just extravagant.
All serious references account bu less than a third of this number, ie between 450 and 550 million speakers.

sacredceltic sacredceltic September 11, 2010 September 11, 2010 at 11:42:00 PM UTC link Lînko payîdar

"most people speak English than French" => C'est la chose la plus extravagante que j'ai jamais lu sur ce mur, sysko : 6 milliard d'êtres humains ne parlent ni français ni anglais ! Et évidemment, avec des principes pareils, ils ne risquent pas de venir...

sacredceltic sacredceltic September 11, 2010 September 11, 2010 at 11:29:01 PM UTC link Lînko payîdar

Yeah, sure, and so are you !

sacredceltic sacredceltic September 11, 2010 September 11, 2010 at 11:22:01 PM UTC link Lînko payîdar

Isn't the issue the very opposite ?
Most trusted-users are English-speaking because Tatoeba is in English ?!

sacredceltic sacredceltic September 8, 2010 September 8, 2010 at 8:43:16 AM UTC link Lînko payîdar

Je ne fais pas d'attaque "personnelle" autre que dénoncer un faux francophone qui fait croire à tout le monde qui l'est alors qu'il ne l'est pas. Savoir de quelles langues une personne est native sur Tatoeba est très important pour lui faire confiance quant à une langue donnée. Or je vois que de nombreuses personnes mentent sur leur langue natale afin de pouvoir "saccager" le corpus de ces langues àleur guise en prétendant avoir un "dialecte" particulier. Adjusting n'est pas francophone canadien. C'est un anglophone et ça se voit régulièrement à ses contributions qui sont plus que douteuses.

sacredceltic sacredceltic September 8, 2010 September 8, 2010 at 12:13:08 AM UTC link Lînko payîdar

et "dialect" c'est aussi de l'anglais. En frnaçais, c'est "dialectE"

sacredceltic sacredceltic September 8, 2010 September 8, 2010 at 12:12:23 AM UTC link Lînko payîdar

Le dialecte de français qui dit "demander une question" s'appelle l'anglais. Je ne crois pas une seconde que tu es un natif francophone en disant ça, comme tu veux le faire croire...
Aucun francophone ne dirait cela. Tu es un anglophone !

sacredceltic sacredceltic September 7, 2010 September 7, 2010 at 11:41:06 PM UTC link Lînko payîdar

et puis en français, on ne "demande" jamais de questions, on les "pose". C'est une erreur que seuls les non francophones peuvent commettre...

sacredceltic sacredceltic September 7, 2010 September 7, 2010 at 11:32:13 PM UTC link Lînko payîdar

Mais tu ne posais pas une question, tu affirmais l'existence d'un diktat qui n'existe pas.

sacredceltic sacredceltic September 7, 2010 September 7, 2010 at 8:05:54 PM UTC link Lînko payîdar

ben si, relit: "Est ce les phrases francaises sur Tatoeba devraient toujours suivre le style préféré de la France?"

sacredceltic sacredceltic September 7, 2010 September 7, 2010 at 7:42:40 PM UTC link Lînko payîdar

Mais ça n'est pas qu'une boutade: Ce syndrome de Stockholm se produit tout le temps en matière de langue. Les locuteurs d'une langue minoritaire finissent par intégrer l'impérialisme d'une autre et le défendre comme le leur propre. Ainsi, des tas de mots anglais pénètrent chaque jour davantage le français, le néerlandais, le danois, le suédois, ...et les jeunes de ces pays sont la plupart les complices de cette invasion, en étant très souvent inconscient que les mots qu'ils emploient sont en fait ni plus ni moins que des mots étrangers.
Comme le bourgeois gentillhomme de Molière, ils font de la prose sans le savoir. Mais c'est la prose de l'envahisseur.

sacredceltic sacredceltic September 7, 2010 September 7, 2010 at 7:36:26 PM UTC link Lînko payîdar

Je viens de vérifier sur un bouquin Québequois que je possède par le célèbre écrivain Nelly Arcan: La ponctuation y est conforme à celle du français "de France". CQFD