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Sentence #499761

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Comments

witbrock witbrock September 5, 2010 September 5, 2010 at 5:52:46 PM UTC link Permalink

This sentence is not anything a native speaker of English would say. Is "the unanswered one" supposed to refer to unrequited love?
I suggest you put the sentence in in whatever language the metaphor belongs to, and leave it to someone to translate it into appropriate English.

FeuDRenais FeuDRenais September 6, 2010 September 6, 2010 at 3:10:01 AM UTC link Permalink

If you change "...love when lemons..." to "...love, while lemons...", then it should be fine, IMO. Grammatically.

Of course it'd be nicer to have some translations so as to have a clue to the meaning, but otherwise it's fine.

Why is there an @delete tag?

FeuDRenais FeuDRenais September 6, 2010 September 6, 2010 at 3:11:50 AM UTC link Permalink

@witbrock: A native speaker could say all kinds of things. It's more of a question of whether or not a native speaker would say that kind of thing in the specified context, but we don't know the context here, and so cannot judge.

blay_paul blay_paul September 6, 2010 September 6, 2010 at 4:48:05 AM UTC link Permalink

> we don't know the context here, and so cannot judge.

I'm generally in favour of the 'imagine the context' school of sentence interpretation. But I don't think this is a good example. 'for the unanswered one' is particularly awkward.

Demetrius Demetrius September 6, 2010 September 6, 2010 at 8:35:44 AM UTC link Permalink

Google returns about 26,400 with ‘"unanswered love"’ [1]. It’s a negligible number compared to 619,000 hits for ‘"unrequited love"’ [2], but I do doubt all these 26 thousand cases are written by Russians. :o

[1] http://www.google.com/search?cl...4b02364fbbaa34
[2] http://www.google.com/search?hl...4b02364fbbaa34

blay_paul blay_paul September 6, 2010 September 6, 2010 at 8:38:26 AM UTC link Permalink

It's the /one/ that makes it unnatural.

witbrock witbrock September 6, 2010 September 6, 2010 at 10:07:29 AM UTC link Permalink

I can write a program that will generate syntactically correct but nonsensical strings of English. It doesn't seem to me that they would be suitable for helping people to learn how to produce natural communications. I can't imagine a thought that this sentence might be trying to express for which this would be the mode of expression chosen by a native speaker.

My best guess is that it's supposed to mean something like "oranges symbolise a happy love, and lemons an unrequited one"

FeuDRenais FeuDRenais September 6, 2010 September 6, 2010 at 12:17:30 PM UTC link Permalink

> It's the /one/ that makes it unnatural.

If you replace "one" with "love", it would make for repetitive prose.

> 'for the unanswered one' is particularly awkward.

It's not awkward but poetic.

blay_paul blay_paul September 6, 2010 September 6, 2010 at 2:31:56 PM UTC link Permalink

> If you replace "one" with "love", it would make for repetitive prose.

Take out the 'the' and it's perfectly natural (except for the oranges and lemons stuff).

"Oranges mean happy love while lemons are for unrequited love."

> It's not awkward but poetic.

It's not poetic, it's confusing. 'one' isn't a natural way to refer to love in that statement. 'sort' would be a bit clearer.

"Oranges mean happy love while lemons are for the unrequited sort." ( '... of love' is omitted)

FeuDRenais FeuDRenais September 6, 2010 September 6, 2010 at 2:37:54 PM UTC link Permalink

> "Oranges mean happy love while lemons are for the unrequited sort." ( '... of love' is omitted)

That's more eloquent, but I disagree that it's in any way more "correct". I can see the current one as being a sentence in, say, a romance novel.

witbrock witbrock September 6, 2010, edited July 8, 2014 September 6, 2010 at 3:52:11 PM UTC, edited July 8, 2014 at 6:32:59 PM UTC link Permalink

It seems to me that the pedagogical virtues of isolated fragments of allegedly poetical writing may be overestimated.

If I were attempting to teach someone French, I should not start with Rimbaud. And this is by no means Rimbaud.

FeuDRenais FeuDRenais September 6, 2010 September 6, 2010 at 7:23:48 PM UTC link Permalink

There are pedagogical criteria in Tatoeba?

quickfitter quickfitter April 11, 2012 April 11, 2012 at 7:02:57 PM UTC link Permalink

Any poem that included this sentence would be spoilt by the fact that it's obviously mistaken English rather than poetic English. 'One' fails to refer back to anything because 'love', the only candidate, is used in an uncountable sense earlier in the sentence.
'Happy' v 'unanswered' could, at a stretch, be used poetically for two possible kinds of love - but when what is said is that they're symbolised respectively by oranges and lemons it's either too trite to merit that level of innovation or awkward because the non-standard terminology gets in the way of the meaning.

AlanF_US AlanF_US July 7, 2014 July 7, 2014 at 10:39:09 PM UTC link Permalink

I'm on the side of the people who think this sentence should be changed, which makes the count 4 to 1. It's a shame we can't reach a consensus, but we certainly have a clear majority. Removing the "@needs native check" tag (by now, it has been checked by plenty of natives) and adding "@change", which I will do after two weeks unless the original poster shows up or someone else gets to it first.

witbrock witbrock July 8, 2014 July 8, 2014 at 6:36:11 PM UTC link Permalink

I have to say, though, in re-reading the comments, that there is some rather lovely English prose in them. Perhaps some of it could be added to the sentence base. The comments also might be taken to serve as some sort of weak (but insufficient) evidence of the stimulative, and hence, arguably slightly poetical nature of the original "sentence".

Selena777 Selena777 July 8, 2014 July 8, 2014 at 6:39:56 PM UTC link Permalink

Im my opinion, "unanswered" is not for poetics here, but as literal translation from Russian. In Russian it's a common word. It should be changed if it's not common in English.

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This sentence is original and was not derived from translation.

Oranges mean happy love when lemons are for the unanswered one.

added by elsteris, September 5, 2010

Oranges mean happy love while lemons are for the unanswered one.

edited by elsteris, September 6, 2010

Oranges mean happy love while lemons are for the unanswered one.

edited by elsteris, September 6, 2010

Oranges signify a happy love while lemons symbolize an unrequited one.

edited by AlanF_US, July 22, 2014