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doezeedoats doezeedoats October 29, 2010 October 29, 2010 at 4:35:13 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

The site represents languages by national flags, instead of, say, using "for example" in each language's script...how bad is that?!

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sacredceltic sacredceltic October 29, 2010 October 29, 2010 at 7:35:16 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Actually, I was the one to raise the issue earlier.
This has been sort of "discussed", though not quite, since certain users didn't see that it could be the subject of debate. The problem is that, as a matter of course, people whose country is strongly and exclusively associated with a single "national" language don't understand such problems at all, but people living in countries such as India, which counts over 400 languages, understand it very well. In the world, there are more nations, from Switzerland to Togo, China or Mauritius, that are plurilingual than nations that are monolingual, but this seems to have escaped the attention of many.

I agree that flags are nationalist symbols that do not adequately represent languages.
For instance, the flag for the English language is the British flag, although, on one hand, a number of other languages are spoken in Great Britain, so it is kind of an insult to the speakers of these other languages, especially when they are indigenous and have predated English on the island, such as Welsh, and on the other hand there are far more English speakers outside of Great Britain than inside.
I understand, though, that flags are nifty visual helpers.
Alternative visual coding systems have been proposed, although there doesn't seem to be any standardisation within sight on the web.
In any case, I think the British flag is the worst possible option to represent the English language. It should be either the red cross of Saint George alone or some other kind of symbol.
I personally support international standards, so I think the 3-letter ISO-639-3 codes should be applied.

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minshirui minshirui October 30, 2010 October 30, 2010 at 8:46:53 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I personally feel that the British flag is fine for English, as is the Indian flag for Hindi. They might not be a 101% politically correct, but they are intuitive, aesthetically pleasing and what most people would expect. I don't think it is an insult to, say, Bengali that Hindi gets the Indian flag, because it is India's national language (though not the "official" language) and has the greatest number of native speakers. The same goes for China and Mandarin. Cantonese, which has its home in Hong Kong has the flag of Hong Kong which I think is most appropriate. Again, I think the idea should be to pick a flag or symbol that is representative and makes it immediately obvious to anyone which language is under discussion. The current system achieves this, and I would not like it to be substituted for some three-letter language codes, which would just look bad.

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sacredceltic sacredceltic October 30, 2010 October 30, 2010 at 6:07:41 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

> the British flag is fine for English, as is the Indian flag for Hindi. They might not be a 101% politically correct, but they are intuitive, aesthetically pleasing and what most people would expect.

I seriously doubt a majority of indian citizens share your view. I can assure you a majority of Welshmen don't.
I remember there were riots in the 60s in India about Hindi being proposed as the sole official federal language. English was actually retained as an auxilliary federal language in India just for the purpose of avoiding Hindi to become too dominant and in order to quench the deadly riots..;which reminds us all that people are ready to die for a language...

As you probably know, actually, Hindi is an official language in 12 States (5 where it is exclusive) and Union territories of the Indian Union, out of 35, ans is spoken by 41% of the population of the Indian Union which hosts 29 languages with over a million speakers, and 14 over 10 million speakers...
The SIL Ethnologue lists 415 living languages for India http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li...akers_in_India

And we think we have problems in Belgium with 3 or in the EU with 30...

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minshirui minshirui October 31, 2010 October 31, 2010 at 8:18:26 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I don't think either of us are going to get anywhere in trying to guess what the majority of people want. I suggest playing it by ear. If many Tatoeba users write to Tatoeba complaining about the flag of India being used as a symbol for Hindi, we should consider a change then based on some sort of poll.

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sacredceltic sacredceltic October 31, 2010 October 31, 2010 at 9:25:15 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I don't think the debate is centred on Hindi and I don't think that polling a handful of users on Tatoeba will solve this issue, which spans the entire world wide web and its 2 billion users...

The fact remains that not only using flags is extremely politically incorrect, but flags are not even practical when dealing with more than a handful of languages...