menu
Tatoeba
language
Register Log in
language English
menu
Tatoeba

chevron_right Register

chevron_right Log in

Browse

chevron_right Show random sentence

chevron_right Browse by language

chevron_right Browse by list

chevron_right Browse by tag

chevron_right Browse audio

Community

chevron_right Wall

chevron_right List of all members

chevron_right Languages of members

chevron_right Native speakers

search
clear
swap_horiz
search

Sentence #1501712

info_outline Metadata
warning
Your sentence was not added because the following already exists.
Sentence #{{vm.sentence.id}} — belongs to {{vm.sentence.user.username}} Sentence #{{vm.sentence.id}}
{{vm.sentence.furigana.info_message}} {{vm.sentence.text}}
star This sentence belongs to a native speaker.
warning This sentence is not reliable.
content_copy Copy sentence info Go to sentence page
subdirectory_arrow_right
warning
{{transcription.info_message}}
Translations
Unlink this translation link Make into direct translation chevron_right
{{translation.furigana.info_message}} {{translation.text}} Existing sentence #{{::translation.id}} has been added as a translation.
edit Edit this translation
warning This sentence is not reliable.
content_copy Copy sentence info Go to sentence page
subdirectory_arrow_right
warning
{{transcription.info_message}}
Translations of translations
Unlink this translation link Make into direct translation chevron_right
{{translation.furigana.info_message}} {{translation.text}} Existing sentence #{{::translation.id}} has been added as a translation.
edit Edit this translation
warning This sentence is not reliable.
content_copy Copy sentence info Go to sentence page
subdirectory_arrow_right
warning
{{transcription.info_message}}
{{vm.expandableIcon}} {{vm.sentence.expandLabel}} Fewer translations

Comments

nimfeo nimfeo February 6, 2017 February 6, 2017 at 8:52:32 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

@sacredceltic
J'ai du mal à "interpréter" cette phrase avant de pouvoir la traduire.
J'aurais tendance à opposer l'idée de forme comme "aspect extérieur, apparence", et celle de classe comme "élégance, prestance". Et le fait de regarder la phrase en anglais ne m'a pas aidé.
Qu'en pensez-vous ?

sacredceltic sacredceltic February 6, 2017 February 6, 2017 at 9:17:13 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

En fait, cette phrase est à double-sens : son sens initial est mathématique avec la notion de forme et de classe d'ensembles (voir théorie des ensemble)
Mais, bien sûr, elle peut être interprétée de la manière que vous faites. Je pense que, dans une traduction, il faut essayer de conserver ce double sens, si c'est possible.

nimfeo nimfeo February 6, 2017 February 6, 2017 at 9:20:24 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Merci.
Sans votre explication et sans contexte, j'étais passé à côté de l'aspect mathématique. Je dois avouer que ce n'est pas ma spécialité, d'ailleurs.

sacredceltic sacredceltic February 6, 2017 February 6, 2017 at 9:25:57 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

il y a aussi une interprétation possible en histoire naturelle (et c'est peut-être de là qu'elle prend son origine), avec les formes et les classes d'êtres vivants.
En effet, la forme des espèces varie en fonction de l'évolution et du milieu, mais la classe reste plus permanente. Un oiseau reste un oiseau même lorsque son espèce ne vole plus...

TimTaylor TimTaylor February 6, 2017 February 6, 2017 at 11:51:55 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

The Chinese is slightly different from the French. I believe 'classe' is a philosophical term with a meaning something akin to (although strictly speaking different from) 'category'. The Chinese, 形式是暂时的,等级才是永恒的, uses 等级, which is closer to 'rank, level'.

sacredceltic sacredceltic February 6, 2017 February 6, 2017 at 2:29:58 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

The Chinese sentence is not a direct translation of this one, so that's OK...

Metadata

close

Sentence text

License: CC BY 2.0 FR

Audio

by {{audio.author}} Unknown author

License: {{vm.getLicenseName(audio.license)}} {{vm.getLicenseName(audio.license)}}
Added
Last modified

Logs

This sentence was initially added as a translation of sentence #1501667Form is temporary, class is permanent..

La forme est transitoire, la classe est permanente.

added by sacredceltic, March 24, 2012

linked by nimfeo, February 6, 2017