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Sentence #1715684

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Comments

 Rovo Rovo July 21, 2012 July 21, 2012 at 11:42:01 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

... lian ...

al_ex_an_der al_ex_an_der July 22, 2012 July 22, 2012 at 12:43:15 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Ni pripensu kiu — laŭ tiu ĉi frazo — nodis!
Mi komprenas la frazon tiel, ke li nodis kaj la virino (nur) helpis.
Malgrau tio, ke la helpo supozeble estis grava, tamen la ago de la nodado (mi ripetas: laŭ la priskribo de la frazo) estas lia. Li nodis sian kravaton. Ŝi helpis al li.
Ŝi helpis al li nodi sian kravaton.
Tamen io (alia) faras la frazon
>Ŝi helpis lin nodi sian kravaton.<
neimitinda. Tio estas la du akuzativoj.
Unue (Ŝi helpis LIN nodi) oni povas supozi, ke la virino helpas al aliaj personoj nodi LIN (!). Ne necesas riski tian miskomprenon; ĉar la vortoj "Ŝi helpis Al LI nodi ..." evitas ĝin.

GrizaLeono GrizaLeono July 22, 2012 July 22, 2012 at 11:21:44 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

La subjekto de la infinitiva verbo "nodi" estas "li", ĉi-kaze en la akuzativo kiel rekta objekto de la verbo "helpis" en la ĉefa frazo.
Mi komprenas la rimarkon de Alexander: en la germana oni diras "mi helpas al vi ...". Tio estas pli klara. Mi do ŝanĝas la frazon laŭ lia propono.

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This sentence was initially added as a translation of sentence #887203She helped him tie his tie..

Ŝi helpis lin nodi sian kravaton.

added by GrizaLeono, July 21, 2012
➜ #887203She helped him tie his tie.

linked by GrizaLeono, July 21, 2012
➜ #1715705Elle l'aida à faire son nœud de cravate.

linked by Rovo, July 21, 2012
Ŝi helpis lin nodi lian kravaton.

edited by GrizaLeono, July 22, 2012
Ŝi helpis lin nodi sian kravaton.

edited by GrizaLeono, July 22, 2012
Ŝi helpis al li nodi sian kravaton.

edited by GrizaLeono, July 22, 2012
➜ #1716330Hun hjalp ham med at binde sit slips.

linked by danepo, July 22, 2012
➜ #910972Sie hat ihm geholfen, seinen Schlips zu binden.

linked by al_ex_an_der, July 22, 2012
➜ #910973Sie hat ihm geholfen, seine Krawatte zu binden.

linked by al_ex_an_der, July 22, 2012
➜ #1716342Sie half ihm, seinen Schlips zu binden.

linked by al_ex_an_der, July 22, 2012
➜ #1716343Sie half ihm, seine Krawatte zu binden.

linked by al_ex_an_der, July 22, 2012
➜ #1716344Sie half ihm, seinen Binder zu binden.

linked by al_ex_an_der, July 22, 2012
➜ #1543458Lo aiutò ad annodare la cravatta.

linked by al_ex_an_der, July 22, 2012
➜ #887912Se hett em hulpen, sien Slips to binnen.

linked by al_ex_an_der, July 22, 2012
➜ #1109739Она помогла ему завязать галстук.

linked by al_ex_an_der, July 22, 2012
➜ #892163Ella le ayudó a atarse la corbata.

linked by al_ex_an_der, July 22, 2012
➜ #1047549Sie half ihm beim Schlipsbinden.

linked by PaulP, May 31, 2014
➜ #1047552Elle l'aida pour faire son nœud de cravate.

linked by PaulP, May 31, 2014