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Sentence #3303101

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Comments

al_ex_an_der al_ex_an_der June 8, 2014 June 8, 2014 at 2:43:04 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

> Ankaŭ mi ne scias tion.

Selena777 Selena777 June 8, 2014 June 8, 2014 at 3:27:13 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

"Tion" is nesessary?

PaulP PaulP June 8, 2014 June 8, 2014 at 4:12:24 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Imho not really... But "ankaŭ" must be in front of "mi".

Dejo Dejo June 8, 2014 June 8, 2014 at 4:19:52 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Teorie vi pravas PaulP sed en www.tekstaro.com mi trovis 11 trafojn por "mi ankaŭ ne" kaj 14 trafojn por "ankaŭ mi ne"".

Zamenhof diris ke se oni volas esti tro logika la lingvo fariĝos malfleksebla.

al_ex_an_der al_ex_an_der June 8, 2014, edited June 8, 2014 June 8, 2014 at 5:34:54 PM UTC, edited June 8, 2014 at 6:10:47 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

@Selena
You have asked whether "tion" is necessary.
Imagine for a moment that you leave "the house of your mother tongue". Make a few steps aside. Now you may note that also the Russian sentence contains the idea of that what is known or not known. In Esperanto this is expressed by "tio". The Russian sentence doesn't lack this idea either even if we see no explicit expression of it.
Should it remain unexpressed in Esperanto? Would that be an advantage or an disadvantage for a language created and applied with the ambition that it should be as easy and clearly as possible understood all over the world?
You mentioned only hours ago that you felt a lack of rules in Esperanto. I can assure you: Esperanto allows you more freedom of expression than many, maybe even all other languages. But don't be afraid — there are some very important basic principles that rule Esperanto and they have to be quite severely observed of everybody who wants to use really good Esperanto. And the better we understand and apply these basic severe rules of Esperanto, the more we can enjoy and use with instinctive certainty the freedom that lies beyond these rules — more precisely the freedom made possible by this rules.
The verb is the central element in the structure and function of Esperanto, and a crucial point is the difference between transitive and intransitive verbs. A transitive verb can't do without an object. Take it as a rule to name it even than when other languages omit it. There are only few cases where we may sometimes omit the object of an transitive verb in Esperanto. 1. If the context of a dialogue makes absolutely clear what is the object. 2. If a specific situation allows that. (For example, when we say "Ni manĝos en la ĝardeno.", we know quite well what kind of food we usual eat and can do without specifying information.)
By the way, that's not a trivial topic at all for nations which languages don't draw a clear line between transitive and intransitive verbs. There lies one more reason for the recomendation not to omit the object of a transitive verb. This applies not only here; the more we allow a tendency of sloppiness, the more difficult orientation and learning will become.

Selena777 Selena777 June 8, 2014 June 8, 2014 at 6:13:46 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

@Alexander
Thanks for your explanation.
So it should alwayys be "Mi trinkas tion", "Mi manĝas tion", ect?

al_ex_an_der al_ex_an_der June 8, 2014 June 8, 2014 at 6:32:00 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I've mentioned that a few verbs like "manĝi" and trinki" are plausible even without naming the object. Nevertheless, it's not a bad idea if you prefere a complete expression like "Trinku ion!"; "Ĉu vi nenion manĝis?", where it would be sufficent to write "Trinku!"; "Ĉu vi ne manĝis?".

Horus Horus May 11, 2018 May 11, 2018 at 11:32:48 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Duplicates of this sentence have been deleted:
x #6689243

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License: CC BY 2.0 FR

Logs

This sentence was initially added as a translation of sentence #3303088Я тоже не знаю..

Mi ankaŭ ne scias.

added by Selena777, June 8, 2014

linked by Selena777, June 8, 2014

Ankaŭ mi ne scias tion.

edited by Selena777, June 8, 2014

linked by PaulP, October 23, 2016

linked by Horus, May 11, 2018

linked by Horus, May 11, 2018

linked by Horus, May 11, 2018

linked by danepo, July 27, 2018

linked by Biderl, March 5, 2025