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Sentence #3374002

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tommy_san tommy_san July 11, 2014 July 11, 2014 at 11:39:16 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

立原道造、1933年ノートより。

原文は歴史的仮名遣い。
「よいものを読んだ後、何も書くな、何も言ふな、お前は、その美しい恍惚を、お前の汚れた言葉で汚す 恥知らずを敢てするな。」

Trinkschokolade Trinkschokolade July 13, 2014, edited July 13, 2014 July 13, 2014 at 5:00:22 AM UTC, edited July 13, 2014 at 5:02:35 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Ich weiß nicht ob man (BESONDERS NICHT ICH ☺) Kunst überhaupt wagen sollte zu übersetzen aber...

Nachdem du etwas gutes gelesen hast, schreibe nichts, sage nichts. Du wirst diese schändliche Schamlosigkeit, jene reizende Verzückung, mit deinen schändlichen Worten nicht wagen.

dou? (für etwas das ich um 6:46 morgens geschrieben habe)

tommy_san tommy_san July 13, 2014 July 13, 2014 at 8:12:25 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

んー、何か抜けてないですか?

後半も命令文(Wage (du) nicht!)で、「その美しい恍惚を、お前の汚れた言葉で汚す」が「恥知らず」を修飾しています。

sharptoothed sharptoothed January 27, 2016 January 27, 2016 at 10:37:41 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I wonder if the following clause is close enough to "お前は、その美しい恍惚を、お前の汚れた言葉で汚す恥知らずを敢てするな":

don't dare to fall into shamelessness that stains the beautiful ecstasy with your dirty words

?

tommy_san tommy_san January 28, 2016 January 28, 2016 at 1:06:28 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I think you misread the 恍惚を汚す恥知らず part. It's not that 恥知らずが恍惚を汚す. It means the same as 恍惚を汚すという恥知らず. (Compare for example the phrase 日本に行った思い出. It doesn't mean your memory visited Japan. It's a memory of your visit to Japan.)

I guess 恥知らず means here a shameless act, otherwise 恥知らずをする doesn't really make sense.

A literal translation would be something like "After reading something good, do not write anything, do not say anything. Do not dare to commit the shameless act of spoiling the beautiful [noble?] ecstasy with your filthy [impure] words."

Maybe we could paraphrase this as "do not dare to spoil shamelessly" or "do not dare to be so shameless as to spoil."

sharptoothed sharptoothed January 28, 2016 January 28, 2016 at 7:30:02 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

> I think you misread the 恍惚を汚す恥知らず part.

Yes, this part was pretty confusing so I went astray in the end, I guess. :-)

> (Compare for example the phrase 日本に行った思い出.
> It doesn't mean your memory visited Japan. It's a memory of your visit to Japan.)

hmmm... But what about, say, 東京へ行くバス or 近くにある居酒屋? It's definitely about a bus that goes to Tokyo and izakaya that resides nearby. isn't it? At the same time, 去年から働いている会社 is about a company where I work since last year, not about a company that works since last year. Attributive subordinate clauses seem to be pretty tricky at times. :-)

> Maybe we could paraphrase this as "do not dare to spoil shamelessly" or "do not dare to be so shameless as to spoil."

Actually, that was the first that came to my mind when I tried to translate this sentence. But I was worrying if such an interpretation is adequate enough.
Thanks, Tommy!

tommy_san tommy_san January 28, 2016 January 28, 2016 at 8:54:51 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

On the other hand, it's often difficult for native Japanese speakers to distinguish relative pronouns, relative adverbs and the conjunction "that".

We can actually get around the trouble by always using "that".

#1284813 Tom was the first boy that (=who, который) ever kissed Mary.
#264565 I do not know the exact place that (=where, где) I was born.
#680739 Mary had a dream that (=что) she won the lottery.

sharptoothed sharptoothed January 28, 2016, edited January 28, 2016 January 28, 2016 at 10:36:42 AM UTC, edited January 28, 2016 at 10:38:44 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Something just came across my mind. Can we interpret "恥知らず" as "shameless person" and thus make the following translation: "don't dare to be the shameless one who spoils..."?

tommy_san tommy_san January 28, 2016 January 28, 2016 at 4:07:45 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

恥知らず cannot mean a shameless person here, since you'd never "do" a person, but regardless of that, I think your translation is valid.

sharptoothed sharptoothed January 28, 2016 January 28, 2016 at 6:04:15 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Oh, indeed. Thanks again, Tommy!

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