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Dês (mewzûyêk)

Tîpî

Verê perskerdişê persêk xeyrê xo persa xo ser o PZP de cigêrayîş bikerê.

Ma wazenîme ke seba munaqeşeyanê medenîyan atmosferêko rindane îdame bikerîme. Xeyrê xo qaydeyanê ma yê verba hereketanê xiraban biwanê.

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frpzzd

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AlanF_US

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gillux gillux vizêr October 30, 2025 at 1:20:18 PM UTC flag Report link Lînko payîdar

Tatoeba was updated today. What’s new?

– The "sentence is owned by a native speaker" search filter got much more advanced: you can now use it on both sentences and translations, you can now search for sentences contributed by non-native speakers, and you can now use this filter when searching in "any language". Many thanks to @frpzzd for requesting this change (and to myself for implementing it). Details: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/3203

– The list of users by language proficiency (menu Community → Languages of members → click on a language) was updated to highlight active members. Not only members are now ordered by "last activity", but an icon is also displayed on the ones active within the past week. This provides a way to easily find native and active speakers of a language. Many thanks to @AlanF_US for requesting this change and to @frpzzd for implementing it! Details: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/3075

– The Ingrian language was updated. The new flag was suggested by @Thadh and created by @frpzzd. Details: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/3129.

– I fixed a bug that prevented some audio recordings from being disabled by admins. That issue was known for years and frequently getting in the way of admins, such as in sentence #2940574.

– It is now possible to filter sentences by license on the API on https://api.tatoeba.org/

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AlanF_US AlanF_US yew saete ver October 30, 2025 at 9:14:57 PM UTC flag Report link Lînko payîdar

Thanks a lot, @gillux, @frpzzd, and @Thadh!

It's both helpful and interesting to be able to see the most recent contributors in a given language, with a special symbol for those who have been active in the last week. I'm also glad the bug preventing some sentences with audio from being edited has been fixed.

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LeviHighway LeviHighway yew saete ver October 31, 2025 at 12:24:07 AM UTC flag Report link Lînko payîdar

I think all users who have been active in the last week should be displayed in the front... For most languages, only one or two or no native speakers are active in a week... and users in the front of the user list are mostly native speakers who has been years inactive.

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AlanF_US AlanF_US yew saete ver October 31, 2025 at 11:48:30 AM UTC flag Report link Lînko payîdar

> I think all users who have been active in the last week should be displayed in the front

They are.

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LeviHighway LeviHighway yew saete ver October 31, 2025 at 11:54:03 AM UTC flag Report link Lînko payîdar

I meant no matter if they're a native speaker or not. For languages like Japanese and Mandarin Chinese, there is only 1 native speaker active in the past week, all other (dozens of pages of) natives speakers are months or years inactive. For Korean, there's no native speaker active in the past week. But they're not the only ones who contributed recently. I think active non-native speakers are more important than inactive native speakers.

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frpzzd frpzzd yew saete ver October 31, 2025 at 4:21:14 PM UTC flag Report link Lînko payîdar

I like this idea, particularly since there are often pages upon pages of inactive native speakers but only a few active speakers (native or otherwise) at any given time.

What do you think of this idea @gillux? It would be a relatively simple fix in the code, I think.

LeviHighway LeviHighway vizêr October 30, 2025 at 4:15:45 PM UTC flag Report link Lînko payîdar

Is it possible to introduce the actual tagging function (@someone) on Tatoeba? People often tag others, but there's no actual notifications. 😅 But I understand this might be very hard, tho.

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frpzzd frpzzd vizêr October 30, 2025 at 4:36:46 PM UTC flag Report link Lînko payîdar

I think this functionality exists, but only via email, and you have to make sure you have email notifications turned on in your account settings. I, for one, get an email whenever someone tags me in a wall post or comment.

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Guybrush88 Guybrush88 vizêr October 30, 2025 at 4:41:17 PM UTC flag Report link Lînko payîdar

I agree that such a feature would be useful for those with the email notifications turned off, since they would likely receive many other mails, if they own many sentences within the corpus

vizêr October 30, 2025 at 4:39:53 PM UTC link Lînko payîdar
warning

Muhtewaya nê mesajî qaydeyanê ma rê ters a, no semed ra mesaj ameyo nimitene. Tena îdarekarî û nuştoxê/a mesajî eşkenê muhtewaya mesajî bivînê.

vizêr October 30, 2025 at 12:52:05 PM UTC link Lînko payîdar
warning

Muhtewaya nê mesajî qaydeyanê ma rê ters a, no semed ra mesaj ameyo nimitene. Tena îdarekarî û nuştoxê/a mesajî eşkenê muhtewaya mesajî bivînê.

LeviHighway LeviHighway vizêr October 30, 2025 at 2:08:33 AM UTC flag Report link Lînko payîdar

On Tatoeba, many people use Cookie as the wildcard for pet names. I'm not sure how should I translate that. We mainly have two ways to call the actual cookie in Chinese, which are 餅乾 (native vocab) and 曲奇 (loanword in Cantonese, which is the Cantonese phonetical mimic of "cookie", but it doesn't sound like "cookie" in Mandarin). But the main problem is, no matter which one I use, both 餅乾 and 曲奇 would sound like the actual cookie instead of a pet name.

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Guybrush88 Guybrush88 vizêr October 30, 2025 at 11:08:19 AM UTC flag Report link Lînko payîdar

In Italian, I use both the loan word ("Cookie") and the literal translation ("Biscotto")

AlanF_US AlanF_US vizêr, vizêr de ame/ê pergalkerdene October 30, 2025 at 12:41:17 PM UTC, October 30, 2025 at 12:44:38 PM UTC de ame/ê pergalkerdene flag Report link Lînko payîdar

First, a little background. Tatoeba itself does not have any notion of "wildcards". One particular contributor writes sentences that make use of a single human male name, a single human female name, a single surname, a single pet name, even a single day of the week, time of day, country name, address, and on and on. He chose that practice, and those names, without regard for any of the following:

- how well the names can be translated into other languages
- whether use of those "wildcards" would drive out use of other possible names, times, and so on

Since that contributor is very prolific, and writes in English (the most translated language and also the one with the most sentences), the effects have propagated through the entire corpus, probably mostly because people have translated those sentences, and to a smaller degree because people have followed his example when writing new sentences.

You have various choices, which are not mutually exclusive:
- Skip these sentences when translating.
- Write your own Chinese sentences with your own pet names. (I intentionally wrote "names" rather than "name" because using the same name every time perpetuates the original problems.)
- Add comments to at least one of those sentences discussing the name you used and how it might be translated.
- Translate your own such Chinese sentences into English.
- Write your own original English sentences.
- Write sentences that refer to pets without using their names. (For instance, in English, this could be done with pronouns.)

Or, if you are intent on translating these sentences:
- Use a name that means something close to though not identical to "cookie", but would be more easily understood as a pet name.
- Use a name that sounds close to though not identical to "cookie", but would be more easily understood as a pet name.
- Use the English name ("Cookie") untranslated and untransliterated, if that happens frequently in written Chinese outside Tatoeba.

vizêr October 30, 2025 at 6:40:20 AM UTC link Lînko payîdar
warning

Muhtewaya nê mesajî qaydeyanê ma rê ters a, no semed ra mesaj ameyo nimitene. Tena îdarekarî û nuştoxê/a mesajî eşkenê muhtewaya mesajî bivînê.

vizêr October 29, 2025 at 7:00:42 PM UTC link Lînko payîdar
warning

Muhtewaya nê mesajî qaydeyanê ma rê ters a, no semed ra mesaj ameyo nimitene. Tena îdarekarî û nuştoxê/a mesajî eşkenê muhtewaya mesajî bivînê.

vizêr October 28, 2025 at 10:23:16 AM UTC link Lînko payîdar
warning

Muhtewaya nê mesajî qaydeyanê ma rê ters a, no semed ra mesaj ameyo nimitene. Tena îdarekarî û nuştoxê/a mesajî eşkenê muhtewaya mesajî bivînê.

LeviHighway LeviHighway vizêr October 19, 2025 at 1:04:00 AM UTC flag Report link Lînko payîdar

I feel quite frustrated when translating English into Chinese. There are many English sentences use "it," "he/she," or "this/that." This is frustrating because even tho if I can translate them into 它, 他, 她, 這個, 那個, but they all sound very unnatural. For example "it is there" is translated into "它在那," but we rarely use 它 that way. We almost always specify the thing. Also, there're sentences that use "he" and "she" together, like "he loves her." It is translated into "他愛她" but you would never hear this sentence in real life, because 他 and 她 have the same pronunciation. It would sound like "ta lives ta," which is very confusing. Also "this/that happens" is translated into "這/那會發生" or "這/那件事會發生," which are still understandable, but you'll never say them in real life. I can't think a good solution for those situations.

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LeviHighway LeviHighway vizêr October 19, 2025 at 1:22:59 AM UTC flag Report link Lînko payîdar

An addition: "do", Chinese much less commonly use a generalized verb like English "to do".

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frpzzd frpzzd vizêr October 19, 2025 at 2:28:42 AM UTC flag Report link Lînko payîdar

Just curious, regarding the ta/ta situation, is it any different in writing (i.e. would it be just as unnatural to read that sentence in a book)?

How do you generally refer to multiple different people of different genders in context - would you generally refer to them by name each time? For instance, something like:

"I don't think Tom should marry Mary."
- "But he loves her!"

If an analogous interaction were taking place in Chinese, would the second sentence just repeat their names? Or maybe use a pronoun for one of them while repeating the other's name?

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LeviHighway LeviHighway vizêr October 19, 2025 at 2:35:32 AM UTC flag Report link Lînko payîdar

It feels weird to me. Because when I read a sentence, there's a voice in my head. So "ta loves ta" would look weird, because I'm trying to read out the sentence.

Thanuir Thanuir vizêr October 19, 2025 at 1:03:08 PM UTC flag Report link Lînko payîdar

Without knowing Chinese, some possibilities, in no particular order:

1. Leave the difficult sentences untranslated. Maybe you have a better idea when you meet them in the future, and there is no lack of English sentences to translate, not to speak of other languages.
2. Look at other translations of the sentence for inspiration. (But be careful to add any translation to the sentence it is a translation of.)
3. Consider a context for the original sentence, and then consider how you would or could translate the entire context, and then check if that creates a valid translation for the sentence in question.
4. To translate "He loves her." into Finnish, I have to do some maneuver like "he" -> "man/boy" or "she" -> "woman/girl", as "he" and "she" both translate to "hän", and "Hän rakastaa häntä." is a somewhat strange construction. I do consider these various variations with man, boy, girl or woman to be acceptable translations.
5. English has constructions like "There is a car in the garage.", where the "there is" part has no equivalent in Finnish, so this would simply become "Autotallissa on auto.". The structure of the sentence is different, but the meaning is the same. A valid translation.

gillux gillux vizêr October 26, 2025 at 8:01:37 AM UTC flag Report link Lînko payîdar

I don’t think every sentence is meant to be translated in every language; just don’t translate a sentence if it feels too weird. You can add your own sentences that reflect a broader and more typical use of Chinese, and let other members translate your sentences.

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small_snow small_snow vizêr October 26, 2025 at 10:23:58 AM UTC flag Report link Lînko payîdar

+1

sharptoothed sharptoothed vizêr October 26, 2025 at 6:06:16 AM UTC flag Report link Lînko payîdar

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