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I suggest to remove the tag controversial
and use "lie" only when it's about science fact (history is a science), if you really think that tag is necessary (but to be honest a comment would seems better to me)
And anyway Tatoeba is not wikipedia, so one who use it (in the future we will had a disclaimer if you really thinki we need it), must know it's about sentence people CAN say, not about sentence someone with the gift (but is that a gift?) of being born with the absolute Truth about the universe, life and everything in mind. I hope people understand, it seems to me that it's obvious, but may be I should also send an e-mail to a friend of mine to tell him to add to the jokes book he wrote to add "note: some of these jokes are about event that may not be possible"
There seems to be some consensus that the "lie" tag should be renamed to something like false, not true, untrue, misleading, etc.
[not needed anymore- removed by CK]
I completely agree with CK and Zifre here, this tag can be very useful for some people, so I honestly wonder why it should be deleted. I accept renaming it into something less polemic, such as "false statement", but I strongly support keeping it, the same as the tag "controversial". If we start deleting tags according to the use we consider should be made of this corpus without thinking that maybe for someone else they may be useful, I wonder how many tags will remain...
Yes, please do.
I'd suggest removing "Lie", "controversial"a, and "opinion", and instead do as you say, add a little advertisement like "Note: some of these sentences represent opinions or facts that might be false or not represent the thoughts of the entire community."
That way, there are no more agendas, no more English conspiracy, no more dictatorship, and all the persons dazzled everyday with these matters will be finally free of all that concern.
一件落着!
Tio estas brila ideo, kiu ebligos al ni reveni al la laboro.
That's a brilliant idea, which will enable us to return to work.
>That way, there are no more agendas, no more English conspiracy, no more dictatorship
You're so candid, it's almost moving...
"Candidness and transparency, information and communication are the basis of mutual trust. Offenheit und Transparenz, Information und Kommunikation sind die Basis gegenseitigen Vertrauens." :)
Meanwhile, one language is dying every second week, in silence...
I think the "controversial" tag can be useful. It hasn't posed any problem until today.
For example, the tag was used on the sentence "Wikipedia is the best encyclopedia on the Internet." That's a statement that not everyone will agree with, so we add a tag like "controversial" or "opinion".
This is a simple system that works well. Why change it all because one user is trolling this website and arguing that every sentence is potentially controversial? I don't like the idea that the entire site is changing because of one user who is probably just doing this for fun/because he likes to argue.
Whatever the decision, it needs to be made because that's the best choice for Tatoeba, not to content one user who likes to object to everything.
objecting against the majority is not trolling, it is just being part of a minority. It's the basis of democracy that not everyone agrees with YOU even though you are part of a more vocal group.
Besides, the idea of removing the tag "controversial" is not mine. I'm actually against it as I explained earlier, because I think people should be made aware that certain assertions must not be taken for granted, as it is not always obvious and people tend to meekly bend to conformism (the kind you want to impose, calling trolls everybody that doesn't conform to your standards).
But I'm also in favour of keeping "lie" as a tag, because a lie is a lie, it's not just controversial and it can be very misleading, such as this idiocy: http://tatoeba.org/epo/sentence...comment-148042
Children use this service, and they shouldn't be misled into believing that kind of bullshit.
"A quarterly growth of 1.2% means an annual growth rate of 4.8%."
This of course isn't an opinion; it's just nonsense. Nevertheless a lie-tag doesn't remedy this. The sentenced should be removes or changed. I think, there is no long discussion needed to agree on this.
The author never reacted...and you cannot force people to write truths that they just ignore, most of the time.
Hence, "lie" tags are necessary.
http://tatoeba.org/deu/sentences/show/168956
The author is not longer available, as is the case with so many Japanese sentences. It won't be a big deal to replace this one number. There is even no knowledge of Japanes needed to do this.
Now the Japanese sentence tells us that the annul growth is 4.9 % - and that's correct in a number rounded to one decimal place. The corresponding changes in the translations are on their way.
Une hirondelle ne fait pas le printemps.
Les étiquettes "lie" ou "untrue" (je ne vois pas la différence) restent nécessaires.
.-.-.
Merci, xeklat, une telle définition se révèle fort utile : "There is no universally accepted definition of lying to others"...
.-.-.
>(Ce que tu cites n’est pas une définition.)
C'est ton lien...
.-.-.
Tu dois pas trop aimer la contestation, ça doit être ça...
.-.-.
oui oui, tu fais partie de la nouvelle génération super conformiste qui trouve la contestation inutile...Je crois que j'ai bien compris...
Je crois décidément que les jeunes occidentaux sont aux antipodes du printemps arabe ou russe...
.-.-.
Ce n'est pas très fair-play de dissumuler le peu de bravade dont on fait preuve sous une langue que l'autre ne comprend pas !
.-.-.
C'est toi qui prétend m'empêcher de protester contre les mensonges, contre-vérités ou assertions trompeuses.
Je te cite :
>Je trouve l'étiquette inutile, tout simplement.
Il y a apparemment un mouvement contre les étiquettes permettant de réagir, comme si toutes les affirmations se valaient, dans une indifférence générale qui est l'apanage de notre temps.
Ce mouvement est nouveau, et je me vois désormais intimer des ordres de ne pas penser par des petits caudillos de cour de récréation.
Je ne vais pas me laisser faire. Le droit de penser est inscrit dans mes gènes.
Pour commencer, ça n'a jamais été la règle sur Tatoeba et je ne suis pas l'inventeur de ces étiquettes réactives que je n'ai fait que trouver sur le service.
Une fois de plus, c'est à mon sujet qu'on veut changer la règle. Lorsque ces étiquettes s'appliquaient à mes phrases, elles ne gênaient personne...
Il n'en est pas question. On ne change pas des règles aussi fondamentales une fois que les gens se sont tellement investis dans un projet sur la base de libertés antérieures qui les ont séduites.
Ce serait une ignominie.
La différence entre un mensonge et la fausseté, c'est la bêtise.