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Sentence #2295

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Comments

jakov jakov July 5, 2011 July 5, 2011 at 9:46:22 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

"not" => "nor"

By the way: This is _not_ a quote by Charles Darwin, although a paraphrase of his writings. (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wi...win#Misquoted)

jakov jakov July 5, 2011 July 5, 2011 at 9:48:59 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

(Oh I see and hear now, that this sentence's audio is already recorded, so perhaps my suggestion for change is not that important to record it again. I think the sentence is fine like this too.)

sacredceltic sacredceltic July 6, 2011 July 6, 2011 at 4:48:29 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

It would be better with "nor", however...

jakov jakov July 6, 2011 July 6, 2011 at 4:52:01 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I have added a version with "nor" as an alternative transaltion.

FeuDRenais FeuDRenais July 6, 2011 July 6, 2011 at 5:34:13 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

It would not be "better" with nor. It would just convey a different kind of rhetorical emphasis.

"not... not..." - the two things are on an equal level
"not... nor..." - the level is established by the first, and the second follows suit

jakov jakov July 6, 2011 July 6, 2011 at 5:40:03 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

However, it is not a quote, so i guess it's okay to have both versions.

FeuDRenais FeuDRenais July 6, 2011 July 6, 2011 at 5:50:02 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I would invite other English speakers to give their opinions. To me, the two versions sound a bit different.

FeuDRenais FeuDRenais July 6, 2011 July 6, 2011 at 11:42:32 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

(btw, in the audio it's "ones")

AlanF_US AlanF_US December 25, 2014 December 25, 2014 at 4:10:38 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

The audio no longer corresponds to the text, so it has been removed.

There's another issue here. For the number to agree across the phrases, either "survive" should be changed to "survives", or "one" needs to be changed to "ones":

It is not the strongest of the species that survives, not the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.

or:

It is not the strongest of the species that survive, not the most intelligent, but the ones most responsive to change.

The latter is most likely what was meant, since we generally talk about multiple individuals who survive.

sacredceltic sacredceltic December 27, 2014 December 27, 2014 at 12:10:59 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

[eng] strongest of the specieS = [fra] l'espèce la plus forte / la plus forte des espèceS

I can't see a problem in this translation...

Ooneykcall Ooneykcall December 27, 2014 December 27, 2014 at 1:24:08 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

"Species" is both singular and plural, you know.
I understand the sentence was meant to read "the strongest specimen of the (singular) species" rather than "the strongest (singular) species of the (plural) species".

At the same time, both readings are semantically possible, and whether one of them is untrue is irrelevant, since we do not require all our sentences not to be false, do we? (Though untrue sentences are better tagged 'lie', of course.) Besides, is the other interpretation actually 100% false? I wouldn't think so.

I think it would be a nice solution to keep the sentence and have it tagged 'ambiguous' and, I suppose, 'invariable noun' or somesuch. There are quite a few such nouns in English and they can cause ambiguity occasionally, so I think that would be a useful tag.

brauchinet brauchinet December 27, 2014 December 27, 2014 at 1:41:27 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Since it's a general statement true for all species, one could substitute "the species" by "a species" to avoid ambiguity.

Ooneykcall Ooneykcall December 27, 2014 December 27, 2014 at 1:45:48 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Wouldn't that have a wee bit different feel? Feels are important, don't change them carelessly.

brauchinet brauchinet December 27, 2014 December 27, 2014 at 1:55:31 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Maybe.
Unconsciously I translated it as "einer Art", and I don't 'feel' like changing it at the moment.

Eldad Eldad December 27, 2014 December 27, 2014 at 1:58:47 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

It sounded fine to me.
I added an Esperanto translation to your German variant, with which I'm quite satisfied. ☺

AlanF_US AlanF_US June 26, 2019, edited June 26, 2019 June 26, 2019 at 12:19:55 PM UTC, edited June 26, 2019 at 2:55:21 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

> It is not the strongest of the species that survive, not the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.

There is a lack of agreement between "survive" (plural) and "one" (singular) in this sentence. There are two ways to correct the sentence, one that makes both plural, and another that makes both singular. Every existing Esperanto, French, German, or Portuguese translation of this sentence makes both singular. Thus, I think that's the change we should apply to this sentence, namely:

It is not the strongest of the species that surviveS, not the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.

(Naturally, the capital S should be lowercase in the actual sentence.)

We could additionally add a sentence that makes both plural:

It is not the strongest of the species that survive, not the most intelligent, but the oneS most responsive to change.

but that may just serve to complicate matters.

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License: CC BY 2.0 FR

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It is not the strongest of the species that survive, not the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.

added by an unknown member, date unknown

It is not the strongest of the species that survives, not the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.

edited by Smoky, June 26, 2019