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Sentence #33449

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Comments

Delian Delian February 28, 2015 February 28, 2015 at 11:02:26 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

#33449 "Boston is too cold for me, let alone Chicago."

has ended up on the same list as

#2148494 "Boston is cold for me, unlike Chicago."

We've got some translations here that need to be checked, and some unlinked, I think.

Ooneykcall Ooneykcall February 28, 2015 February 28, 2015 at 11:35:50 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

It's very easy to see the two sentences are connected through a Russian sentence. (You could have checked that yourself, simply by clicking the other English sentence and observing.)

And don't say you've never heard of phrases that can mean polar opposites depending on manner of intonation :)

The Russian sentence features a lengthy discussion regarding whether it can actually be understood in two ways, and eventually this potential ambiguity is acknowledged: although the instinctive reading would correspond to the other English sentence, this one may also fit the Russian sentence if it is intoned differently (most likely in speech, where we often formulate sentences as we go along, which can influence the word/clause order).

Delian Delian March 1, 2015, edited March 1, 2015 March 1, 2015 at 12:27:11 AM UTC, edited March 1, 2015 at 12:48:10 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

@ Ooneykcall

The two English sentences quoted above are not equivalents, and shouldn't be on the same list. (It might help non-Americans to know that Chicago is colder than Boston, in both common perception and per statistics. http://www.currentresults.com/W...st-cities.php)

"Boston is too cold for me, let alone Chicago."

Says that Boston is too cold for the speaker, so (even colder) Chicago is beyond the realm of consideration.

"Boston is cold for me, unlike Chicago."

The straightforward reading indicates the speaker believes Chicago is warmer than Boston.

While it *could* be read with a wink and an intonation that indicates the speaker means exactly the opposite, for the purposes of this website and the needs of English language learners, I don't think we ought to assume a meaning contrary to the straightforward one. The weather comparison between Boston and Chicago may not be common knowledge outside the US.

Ooneykcall Ooneykcall March 1, 2015 March 1, 2015 at 10:29:30 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

That's not how Tatoeba translations work.
If A is linked to B and B is linked to C, A and C are listed as indirect translations of each other. Indirect translations are not always real translations for each other - and you should not take them for granted - but since they often are, it is a useful section for comparison. Sometimes, though, when B can legitimately mean two different things, A and C won't be the same, and it's alright.
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The problem with concentrating on straightforward meanings only is that when a learner would be presented with a non-straightforward meaning, s/he could then find hemself at a loss. I support the idea that Tatoeba should be as broad as possible, with proper categorisation of course, e.g. the learner should be informed of which meaning is the intuitive one and which is the unusual one.

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Boston is too cold for me, let alone Chicago.

added by an unknown member, date unknown