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Sentence #3769202

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Comments

Eldad Eldad January 15, 2015, edited January 15, 2015 January 15, 2015 at 1:07:45 AM UTC, edited January 15, 2015 at 1:08:44 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Hi Marina,
Could you also add a variant that would reflect the gender of the subject?
(I added two Hebrew variants for your Russian translation, each reflecting one of the two genders).

marafon marafon January 15, 2015 January 15, 2015 at 1:13:33 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Do you mean "Я должен /должна была надеть свитер"? I'm afraid it's not what I'd say in Russian.

Eldad Eldad January 15, 2015 January 15, 2015 at 1:18:08 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Not necessarily.
You used "мне пришлось", which is impersonal, so to speak (and doesn't betray the speaker's gender). Could you add another variant (not necessarily with "Я должен был /должна была"), or would the above wording be the only one you would use to render the French sentence?

marafon marafon January 15, 2015 January 15, 2015 at 1:23:32 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

> would the above wording be the only one you would use to render the French sentence?
I can't figure out anything so far. :(

marafon marafon January 15, 2015, edited January 15, 2015 January 15, 2015 at 1:26:01 AM UTC, edited January 15, 2015 at 1:26:28 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Я вынужден был / вынуждена была надеть свитер.
But it' s tooooo bookish.

Eldad Eldad January 15, 2015 January 15, 2015 at 1:28:39 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

OK, let's leave it, then. :)

sharptoothed sharptoothed January 15, 2015 January 15, 2015 at 1:30:40 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Было холодно, и я надел(а) свитер. ;-)

Ooneykcall Ooneykcall January 15, 2015 January 15, 2015 at 1:36:31 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I wouldn't reject "должен/должна" altogether; rather, I say. it would reflect a feeling of a sort of duty, vaguely speaking; maybe one was trained in childhood to put on something warm when it gets cold, so it is (semi-consciously, perhaps) perceived as some sort of internal obligation as well. Generally: if protecting one's health here is something the speaker feels they ought to do rather than just have to do, I wouldn't shun должен. It's a matter of the feels or something. :>3
Я вынужден feels more like 'I was forced to', so indeed rather a tad too strong/bookish, I suppose.

marafon marafon January 15, 2015, edited January 15, 2015 January 15, 2015 at 1:38:46 AM UTC, edited January 15, 2015 at 1:39:36 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

@sharptoothed
Какой ты хитрый.
Comme il faisait froid, j'ai mis un chandail. Но у нас еще j'ai dû имеется.
j'ai dû = I had to = мне пришлось

Ooneykcall Ooneykcall January 15, 2015 January 15, 2015 at 1:40:57 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Интересно, а если всё-таки "я должен был"? Это как тогда? - ведь devoir и есть глагол долженствования.

Eldad Eldad January 15, 2015 January 15, 2015 at 1:42:08 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Thank you, guys. You illuminated the subject. ☺
This "had to", "мне пришлось", is equal to "I ought to" in the past?

marafon marafon January 15, 2015, edited January 15, 2015 January 15, 2015 at 2:19:43 AM UTC, edited January 15, 2015 at 2:34:13 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

@Ooneykcall
Дословно j'ai dû и есть "я должен был". Но беда в том, что наше "должен был" не отражает законченности действия французского passé composé (ведь есть еще je devais - длительное и/или повторяющееся незаконченное действие в прошлом).
А вот "мне пришлось" - отражает. Поэтому это самый точный эквивалент.
Мы, конечно, можем сказать "Было холодно, поэтому я должен был надеть свитер", но это уже натяжка. И по-русски не так складно.

marafon marafon January 15, 2015, edited January 15, 2015 January 15, 2015 at 2:31:30 AM UTC, edited January 15, 2015 at 3:57:38 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

@Eldad
I personally would translate "мне пришлось" as "I had to" and nothing else.
As for "I ought to", it seems to be no less bookish than "вынужден".
But maybe Denis will say you more about it.

marafon marafon January 15, 2015 January 15, 2015 at 2:33:36 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

E.g.
http://online-teacher.ru/blog/a...dalnye-glagoly
TO HAVE TO необходимость (вынужден, приходится)
As I was to be there at 5 sharp, I had to take a taxi. – Так как я должен был быть там ровно в пять, мне пришлось взять такси.

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License: CC BY 2.0 FR

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This sentence was initially added as a translation of sentence #2242531Comme il faisait froid, j'ai dû mettre un chandail..

Поскольку было холодно, мне пришлось надеть свитер.

added by marafon, January 15, 2015