menu
Tatoeba
language
Register Log in
language English
menu
Tatoeba

chevron_right Register

chevron_right Log in

Browse

chevron_right Show random sentence

chevron_right Browse by language

chevron_right Browse by list

chevron_right Browse by tag

chevron_right Browse audio

Community

chevron_right Wall

chevron_right List of all members

chevron_right Languages of members

chevron_right Native speakers

search
clear
swap_horiz
search

Sentence #3778216

info_outline Metadata
warning
Your sentence was not added because the following already exists.
Sentence #{{vm.sentence.id}} — belongs to {{vm.sentence.user.username}} Sentence #{{vm.sentence.id}}
{{vm.sentence.furigana.info_message}} {{vm.sentence.text}}
star This sentence belongs to a native speaker.
warning This sentence is not reliable.
content_copy Copy sentence info Go to sentence page
subdirectory_arrow_right
warning
{{transcription.info_message}}
Translations
Unlink this translation link Make into direct translation chevron_right
{{translation.furigana.info_message}} {{translation.text}} Existing sentence #{{::translation.id}} has been added as a translation.
edit Edit this translation
warning This sentence is not reliable.
content_copy Copy sentence info Go to sentence page
subdirectory_arrow_right
warning
{{transcription.info_message}}
Translations of translations
Unlink this translation link Make into direct translation chevron_right
{{translation.furigana.info_message}} {{translation.text}} Existing sentence #{{::translation.id}} has been added as a translation.
edit Edit this translation
warning This sentence is not reliable.
content_copy Copy sentence info Go to sentence page
subdirectory_arrow_right
warning
{{transcription.info_message}}
{{vm.expandableIcon}} {{vm.sentence.expandLabel}} Fewer translations

Comments

Eldad Eldad January 19, 2015 January 19, 2015 at 9:36:44 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Ĉi tie вам signifas "vi" en la pluralo, ĉu ne?

Selena777 Selena777 January 19, 2015 January 19, 2015 at 10:14:17 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Yes, though it can also mean polite Вы.

Eldad Eldad January 19, 2015 January 19, 2015 at 10:25:50 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Yes, but then you would write it with В (capital в).

Ooneykcall Ooneykcall January 19, 2015 January 19, 2015 at 12:51:30 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

You needn't, though. I myself dislike gratuitous use of the extra capitalisation because referring to someone with a V-form is already polite, and capitalising it looks like double politeness which doesn't usually match the genuine level of respect, and I don't like it when what is written/said is rather far away from what is thought internally. o.o
Many are very keen on using the Capital Letter, however, and I've seen forum folk express utter displeasure at being addressed without one, but really I think they are far too concerned with minute differences, given it's pronounced the same way anyway.

Eldad Eldad January 19, 2015, edited January 19, 2015 January 19, 2015 at 1:59:39 PM UTC, edited January 19, 2015 at 2:00:14 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

That's very interesting. Following what you've just said, I can add another variant in Hebrew, addressing the second person singular (we don't have a respectable form in Hebrew). So far, I have limited myself to adding only variants with the second person plural - when the "vy" is not capitalized in the Russian sentence.

Pfirsichbaeumchen Pfirsichbaeumchen January 19, 2015, edited January 19, 2015 January 19, 2015 at 2:02:38 PM UTC, edited January 19, 2015 at 2:17:49 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

It gets especially interesting when there are both variants, "Вы" and "вы". ☺

Eldad Eldad January 19, 2015 January 19, 2015 at 2:04:03 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Ooneykcall Ooneykcall January 19, 2015, edited January 19, 2015 January 19, 2015 at 2:05:48 PM UTC, edited January 19, 2015 at 2:06:02 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

It has been established that polite singular вы does not have to be capitalised, particularly out of formal discourse, although the tradition is still often followed. Therefore, it is entirely correct to translate contextless вы-sentences as either singular or plural.

Ooneykcall Ooneykcall January 19, 2015 January 19, 2015 at 2:13:23 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

So basically capitalisation here is most often left to the writer's preference, I believe, unless extra politeness is mandatory (e.g. in diplomatic speech) or when the addressee is a "random person" (e.g. in questionnaires, advertisement e-mail), and Вы is capitalised to show that it is singular, otherwise it would have been unclear whether the questionnaire (e-mail etc.) targeted the person specifically (I) or a group they are part of (we).

Eldad Eldad January 19, 2015 January 19, 2015 at 3:06:23 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Thanks. I'll translate accordingly.

Selena777 Selena777 January 19, 2015, edited January 19, 2015 January 19, 2015 at 5:10:46 PM UTC, edited January 19, 2015 at 5:11:52 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

@Eldad
I've added the sentence with polite "Вы". http://tatoeba.org/rus/sentences/show/3779295
Feel free to translate it :)
Sorry, I just felt lazy to do it before...

Eldad Eldad January 19, 2015 January 19, 2015 at 5:35:35 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Thank you very much, Selena.
Nevertheless, just because of that we have had this illuminating discussion.
I'll now translate your additional sentence.

Selena777 Selena777 January 19, 2015 January 19, 2015 at 5:40:55 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Thanks, Eldad.
Btw, how many translations is there possible for Hebrew?

Eldad Eldad January 19, 2015, edited January 19, 2015 January 19, 2015 at 5:51:06 PM UTC, edited January 19, 2015 at 5:52:48 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

In Hebrew, I believe there are only two variants possible in this case, for a singular "Вы" and for a plural "вы". It's interesting, as the verb "want" in Hebrew, both for masculine and feminine, is written the same way! It's up to the reader to "guess" how to read it, with the final syllable being pronounced "tseh" for masculine and "tsah" for feminine. The verb looks like "роце"* for a guy and "роца"* for a girl. :)

____
* The accent falls on the last syllable.

Selena777 Selena777 January 19, 2015 January 19, 2015 at 6:38:35 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Thanks, I see. In my opinion, it's not very conveniently, but languages are strange sometines. :)

Eldad Eldad January 19, 2015 January 19, 2015 at 6:45:58 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Indeed. Sometimes, even very strange. :)

Horus Horus March 16, 2015 March 16, 2015 at 12:23:40 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Duplicates of this sentence have been deleted:
x #3954368

Horus Horus August 23, 2018 August 23, 2018 at 12:08:21 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Duplicates of this sentence have been deleted:
x #7080575

Metadata

close

Sentence text

License: CC BY 2.0 FR

Logs

This sentence was initially added as a translation of sentence #601113Mi ne volas helpi al vi..

Я не хочу вам помогать.

added by Selena777, January 19, 2015

linked by Selena777, January 19, 2015

linked by Eldad, January 19, 2015

linked by Eldad, January 19, 2015

linked by Eldad, January 19, 2015

linked by Pfirsichbaeumchen, January 19, 2015

linked by Selena777, January 19, 2015

#2610566

linked by Selena777, January 19, 2015

#3954184

linked by Horus, March 16, 2015