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Sentence #711406

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Your sentence was not added because the following already exists.
Sentence #{{vm.sentence.id}} — belongs to {{vm.sentence.user.username}} Sentence #{{vm.sentence.id}}
{{vm.sentence.furigana.info_message}} {{vm.sentence.text}}
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Translations
Unlink this translation link Make into direct translation chevron_right
{{translation.furigana.info_message}} {{translation.text}} Existing sentence #{{::translation.id}} has been added as a translation.
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Translations of translations
Unlink this translation link Make into direct translation chevron_right
{{translation.furigana.info_message}} {{translation.text}} Existing sentence #{{::translation.id}} has been added as a translation.
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{{vm.expandableIcon}} {{vm.sentence.expandLabel}} Fewer translations

Comments

DostKaplan DostKaplan December 29, 2021, edited December 29, 2021 December 29, 2021 at 12:27:49 PM UTC, edited December 29, 2021 at 12:31:54 PM UTC link Permalink

This sentence (Do YOU like...) is lumped together with "Does HE/SHE like..." and "Do THEY like...". 🤷🏻‍♂️

https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...nges%3F%22&to=

Shishir Shishir December 29, 2021 December 29, 2021 at 12:49:26 PM UTC link Permalink

yes, as indirect translations because the Spanish "¿le gustan las naranjas?" can mean "does he/she like" and "do you like" (you formal singular), and "¿les gustan las naranjas?" can mean "do they like" and "do you like" (you formal plural)

DostKaplan DostKaplan December 29, 2021, edited December 29, 2021 December 29, 2021 at 1:23:39 PM UTC, edited December 29, 2021 at 1:24:12 PM UTC link Permalink

But it doesn't work this way in other languages like Turkish and Romanian, and certainly not in English. "Does she like oranges?" and "Do they like oranges?" can't possibly be equivalent English sentences.

Shishir Shishir December 29, 2021 December 29, 2021 at 2:24:45 PM UTC link Permalink

that's why they're not directly linked

DostKaplan DostKaplan December 29, 2021 December 29, 2021 at 4:20:21 PM UTC link Permalink

I don't understand. If they are not linked, then why do I see them in the results when I search for "Do YOU like oranges?"

https://tatoeba.org/en/sentence...nges%3F%22&to=

Shishir Shishir December 29, 2021, edited December 29, 2021 December 29, 2021 at 4:37:08 PM UTC, edited December 29, 2021 at 4:37:42 PM UTC link Permalink

because there you see the direct AND the indirect translations. If you only look at the direct translations (the ones with the blue arrow on the left side), you'll see the equivalent translations. You have to ignore the indirect ones (the ones with the grey arrow), such as the English ones you mention, because they don't necessarily match since they are translations of translations.

DJ_Saidez DJ_Saidez December 29, 2021 December 29, 2021 at 6:50:55 PM UTC link Permalink

For example, the Spanish "Le gustan las naranjas?", because of the lack of direct pronoun (he, she, you), can mean "does he like oranges", "does she like oranges", "do they like oranges"...
Japanese is even more ambiguous since while Spanish implies pronouns thru the way the verb is conjugated, Japanese often uses no pronouns at all
So those translations are possible, even if they're not equal to each other. It depends on context which meaning it takes

DostKaplan DostKaplan December 29, 2021, edited December 29, 2021 December 29, 2021 at 9:42:15 PM UTC, edited December 29, 2021 at 9:43:41 PM UTC link Permalink

@DJ_Saidez
I get what you're saying. So, if...

Sentence A in English
Sentence B in English
Sentence C in English

are appropriate translations for Sentence S in Spanish, then if I search for Sentence S, from Spanish to English, I would expect Sentence A, Sentence B, and Sentence C to show up in the results.

But Sentence R in Romanian matches ONLY Sentence B in English. If I search for Sentence B, from English to Romanian, I would expect to only see Sentence R in the results. And vice versa.

I don't understand why other languages like Romanian must behave as if they were Spanish. Makes no sense to me, from a user experience perspective.

DJ_Saidez DJ_Saidez December 29, 2021, edited December 29, 2021 December 29, 2021 at 10:33:33 PM UTC, edited December 29, 2021 at 10:34:05 PM UTC link Permalink

Sentence A and Sentence C show up as INDIRECT translations, at least in the new design. In the old design they show up as grey arrows.
This means they're "translations of translations". Sometimes they match enough to be linked as direct translations. Other times, they're not, and that's fine, they're left as is.
It's not saying the Romanian matches with all those sentences like the Spanish does.

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License: CC BY 2.0 FR

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This sentence was initially added as a translation of sentence #534048¿Le gustan las naranjas?.

Do you like oranges?

added by Shishir, January 15, 2011

linked by Shishir, January 15, 2011

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