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This sentence was initially added as a translation of sentence #69324.

מִמֶּנִּי תִרְאוּ וְכֵן תַּעֲשׂוּ

added by MrShoval, February 6, 2012 at 10:03 PM

#69324

linked by MrShoval, February 6, 2012 at 10:03 PM

מִמֶּנִּי תִרְאוּ וְכֵן תַּעֲשׂוּ.

edited by MrShoval, February 6, 2012 at 10:03 PM

#1419187

linked by MrShoval, February 6, 2012 at 10:04 PM

#1484216

linked by MrShoval, March 13, 2012 at 6:01 PM

Sentence #1419185

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Comments

Vortarulo Vortarulo February 6, 2012 at 10:08 PM February 6, 2012 at 10:08 PM link Permalink

I see you have added a vocalized Hebrew sentence. Is it Modern Hebrew or Classical Hebrew (I saw that the English sentence is tagged as "Bible")?

I wonder if Biblical/Classical Hebrew should be treated as its own language here on Tatoeba or if we should simply add them under "Hebrew" and mark them with a tag, maybe.

MrShoval MrShoval February 6, 2012 at 10:27 PM February 6, 2012 at 10:27 PM link Permalink

1. The verse is in classical Heb, yet this is used as-is as a nowadays proverb.
2. Biblical Heb is not a different language.
3. The vocalization is just an addition, it does NOT imply ancient or high level language.
4. There are already over 120 BIBLE tags, so ...

Eldad Eldad February 6, 2012 at 10:31 PM February 6, 2012 at 10:31 PM link Permalink

We consider Biblical Hebrew as part of our current Hebrew, although the Biblical language is many a time archaic. However, it's part of Modern Hebrew and is well combined with our daily language.

Vortarulo Vortarulo February 6, 2012 at 10:39 PM February 6, 2012 at 10:39 PM link Permalink

Thanks. As these things are definitely debatable and as I don't know enough about the two variants of Hebrew, I raised a discussion on the Wall:

http://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/sho...#message_11337

Vortarulo Vortarulo February 6, 2012 at 10:48 PM February 6, 2012 at 10:48 PM link Permalink

Ah, thanks. I didn't see your message, Eldad. Do you know what tags are appropriate for these sentences?
These tags come to mind:

Bible: to mark is as a quotation
Biblical Hebrew: to mark that these sentences perhaps don't follow today's grammar because they're a bit archaic
Archaic: because, well, it's archaic (same as above)
Vocalized: I'd find it useful to be able to display all Hebrew (and Arabic) sentences with vowels, because only then I am able to read them properly
Proverb: if it's a proverb, the tag is appropriate

Eldad Eldad February 6, 2012 at 11:01 PM February 6, 2012 at 11:01 PM link Permalink

Thanks. I believe we can use those tags, and we'll use them in our sentences. I'll add "Bible" and "Vocalized" to the current sentence.

Using the tag "Archaic" may be a bit tricky, as sometimes it's not so obvious whether a certain usage is archaic or not (the current sentence, for instance, uses Hebrew which is very similar to our Modern language, yet the way it is said reflects usage that isn't current, except in Biblically phrased sentences).

Vortarulo Vortarulo February 6, 2012 at 11:02 PM February 6, 2012 at 11:02 PM link Permalink

Interesting. Okay, I leave these tags to you and just add "Vocalized" if I see them.

Eldad Eldad February 6, 2012 at 11:10 PM February 6, 2012 at 11:10 PM link Permalink

Yes, do add "Vocalized" ad lib :)

BTW, sometimes we only add partial vocalization, as many Hebrew words, when non-vocalized, can be read/interpreted in more than one form. So you may well encounter sentences where only one word has been vocalized, or where only one or two its letters are vocalized, rather than the whole word. I guess you can tag such sentences as Vocalized as well (or maybe not? Maybe it would be advisable to tag only when whole sentences are vocalized? A point to be considered).

MrShoval MrShoval February 6, 2012 at 11:14 PM February 6, 2012 at 11:14 PM link Permalink

Any partial vocalizing is considered as "supporting voc.".
I would suggest VOC tags only for a whole vocalized sentence.
as used mainly on quotations, poetry, etc.