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Sentence #1260485

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Comments

Eldad Eldad November 24, 2011 November 24, 2011 at 11:32:12 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Ĉu vi dirus ĉi tie:
"Ĉi tie", aŭ ĉu: "tie"?
Bonan nokton! à bientôt demain.

sacredceltic sacredceltic November 24, 2011 November 24, 2011 at 11:51:47 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

J'attendais cette question, un jour ou l'autre....C'est compliqué.

En fait, les français disent souvent « là » où en fait ils veulent dire « ici ». Le paradoxe qu'on entend le plus souvent en français, est « je suis là ».
Donc il faut considérer que « là » est une des traductions correctes, par défaut, de [eng]"here", sauf dans des cas particuliers.

This book here = Ce livre-ci / Ce livre-là
Comme over here = Viens ici / Viens là
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/3702
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/549093 => « voici » serait équivalent mais moins commun
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/3240
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/6029

« ici/-ci » ne s'emploie en fait le plus souvent que pour contraster/opposer « ici » et « là »

This book or that book? = Ce livre-ci ou ce livre-là ?
This book here ! = Ce livre-ci !

Dans toutes les expressions courantes où on veut dire « dans ce cas », on dit en général « là » mais on pourrait dire aussi « dans ce cas-ci»

Mais dans le cas où on veut dire « chez nous » / « dans notre ville / village /... » ou le lieu où on se trouve actuellement, on emploiera « ici » parce que ça s'oppose au reste du monde.

In the area / the surroundings = Par ici
Is there a telephone, here? = Y a-t-il un téléphone, ici ?
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/6897
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/7302
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/7304

J'espère que ça clarifie un peu...

Eldad Eldad November 25, 2011 November 25, 2011 at 12:08:35 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Yes, it clarifies a lot. Actually, you helped me "corroborate" what I sensed long ago about French.

Thank you very much for all the examples and translation variants.

So, "là" is indeed, as I suspected, many a time referred to as a simple "here".

Eldad Eldad November 25, 2011 November 25, 2011 at 12:17:05 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that when you wish to stress that "là" means "there" rather than "here", you say "là-bas".

sacredceltic sacredceltic November 25, 2011 November 25, 2011 at 12:33:55 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

>I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) that when you wish to stress that "là" means "there" rather than "here", you say "là-bas".

Indeed.

Another way to summarize it is: « là » ended up dominating and replacing « ici/-ci» wherever no opposition/contrast is needed, and even though there is a contrast, it can be solved with the duality between « là » and « là-bas », except when you contrast with anywhere/anything else.

sacredceltic sacredceltic November 25, 2011 November 25, 2011 at 12:36:44 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

actually, the example of the telephone is more logical in French than in English, because when people say "Are you still here?" over the phone, they mean "there"...

Eldad Eldad November 25, 2011 November 25, 2011 at 12:56:47 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Indeed, là is really relevant when it comes to a telephone conversation :)

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Sentence text

License: CC BY 2.0 FR

Logs

This sentence was initially added as a translation of sentence #1259647Da liegst du völlig falsch!.

Là tu as totalement tort !

added by sacredceltic, November 24, 2011

linked by sacredceltic, November 24, 2011

linked by Eldad, November 24, 2011

linked by Eldad, November 24, 2011

linked by Eldad, November 25, 2011

linked by Eldad, November 25, 2011

linked by Eldad, November 25, 2011

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linked by Shishir, November 28, 2011

linked by TWB, June 27, 2022