menu
Tatoeba
language
Register Log in
language English
menu
Tatoeba

chevron_right Register

chevron_right Log in

Browse

chevron_right Show random sentence

chevron_right Browse by language

chevron_right Browse by list

chevron_right Browse by tag

chevron_right Browse audio

Community

chevron_right Wall

chevron_right List of all members

chevron_right Languages of members

chevron_right Native speakers

search
clear
swap_horiz
search

Wall (7,253 threads)

Tips

Before asking a question, make sure to read the FAQ.

We aim to maintain a healthy atmosphere for civilized discussions. Please read our rules against bad behavior.

Latest messages feedback

88Goinnet1vn

11 minutes ago

feedback

ecorralest101

6 hours ago

subdirectory_arrow_right

araneo

23 hours ago

subdirectory_arrow_right

AlanF_US

yesterday

feedback

Babelball

yesterday

subdirectory_arrow_right

CK

2 days ago

subdirectory_arrow_right

LeviHighway

2 days ago

feedback

frpzzd

2 days ago

subdirectory_arrow_right

doemaar14

4 days ago

feedback

gillux

4 days ago

saeb saeb April 8, 2010 April 8, 2010 at 2:35:05 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I was just wondering, would mining sentences from speeches be okay? (since speeches are in the public domain right?)

{{vm.hiddenReplies[427] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
TRANG TRANG April 8, 2010 April 8, 2010 at 10:04:38 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I actually have no idea if every speech is in the public domain. But if you are only adding one or two sentences from a speech, then you should be fine. If you are adding the whole speech, then do make sure that it is in the public domain.

I would still encourage you to translate what is already here though. It wouldn't be very productive for you to add manually, one by one, sentences from a long text :P
Because yes, we will someday have a feature for mass adding.

As for having a special section for long text, we surely will have that too, someday. But in a much much more distant future than the mass adding. There is still a lot to do with sentences, before we move on to long texts.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[437] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
saeb saeb April 8, 2010 April 8, 2010 at 10:37:01 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

you know, a translated sentence will always be a translated sentence...at least for Arabic, I can always tell if a sentence was translated no matter how good the translator is...so I'm mixing both mining sentences from native sources and translating existing sentences.
(looking forward to all the cool stuff that will be added to tatoeba :), I'm patient though afterall it took wikipedia a couple of years to become what it is...)

{{vm.hiddenReplies[438] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
brauliobezerra brauliobezerra April 10, 2010 April 10, 2010 at 2:05:00 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

There is no natural way to say "The book is on the table" in Arabic? I don't speak Arabic, but I guess a good translator wouldn't try to keep the same sentence structure or even the very exact meaning if this produces an unnatural sentence. In Portuguese, French and Spanish I'm pretty sure we can say that there is a book on a table in a very natural way.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[445] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
saeb saeb April 10, 2010 April 10, 2010 at 2:30:33 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

:D you got me there...simple short sentences are hard to argue against :)...but I'm pretty sure I've never used such a...uhm lame and simplistic sentence.

I don't know...I guess to get a native sounding sentence...you need context...a life situation...but then your translated sentence might end up being..."too native"...basically loose direct connection to what's being translated...because of idiomatic and figurative usage

Maybe I'm thinking too much :D

saeb saeb April 8, 2010 April 8, 2010 at 4:53:11 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

One more question (sorry), is there any plans in the future for mass adding of sentences to tatoeba?
[for example importing sentences to tatoeba from a txt file of for e.g. sentences separated by white characters]

{{vm.hiddenReplies[429] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
sysko sysko April 8, 2010 April 8, 2010 at 9:30:01 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

No problem at all with questions, that show us there are people interested in Tatoeba :D, yep in the future we would like too, because I have a big anki deck with a lot of example sentences, and an other user too (and maybe others), and as long as the sentences respect copyright law and so, it will be really good to have them in tatoeba too
but to be honnest I don't when we will implement this, in fact if several people send us tab separated files, then it will be implemented sooner :P
but as I've said to an other user, at least for the moment, me and Trang can import them in tatoeba database even if there's no possibility for users yet

{{vm.hiddenReplies[433] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
saeb saeb April 9, 2010 April 9, 2010 at 7:47:01 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

hmmm...tell me more about the tab separated files...how should the format go...sentence,tab,translation...?

{{vm.hiddenReplies[439] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
sysko sysko April 9, 2010 April 9, 2010 at 11:26:43 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

yep this way
sentence1[tab]translation1
sentence2[tab]translation2

{{vm.hiddenReplies[440] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
saeb saeb April 9, 2010 April 9, 2010 at 2:02:17 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

so I take it there's a \n between the 2 entries? (mass adding here I come :P)

{{vm.hiddenReplies[441] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
sysko sysko April 9, 2010 April 9, 2010 at 2:17:08 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

yep SENTENCE1\tTRANSLATION1\nSENTENCE2 etc... :)

sysko sysko April 8, 2010 April 8, 2010 at 9:24:53 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

In the absolute it's not a problem for me, but maybe then we can put them in a special section, reserved for long text, this way you will not need to worry about the current sentence length limitation and moreover this way people who're looking for long text, will find them easily
what do you think?
and Trang ?

{{vm.hiddenReplies[431] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
saeb saeb April 8, 2010 April 8, 2010 at 9:29:19 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

That would be sweet! you know, then people could just go on adding short fairy tales...

saeb saeb April 8, 2010 April 8, 2010 at 2:45:20 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

and is there a limit on the number of characters a sentence on tatoeba can contain?

{{vm.hiddenReplies[428] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
sysko sysko April 8, 2010 April 8, 2010 at 9:22:30 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

500 characters exactly, I think we will need to add this when people add sentences :P

saeb saeb April 8, 2010 April 8, 2010 at 12:34:54 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

It took a while, but finally 2,000+ sentences in arabic...I already feel it's gonna take longer to reach 3,000 (zipang! how did you reach over 9,000 in no time?! god-like)

{{vm.hiddenReplies[434] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
sysko sysko April 8, 2010 April 8, 2010 at 12:42:32 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I think Zipangu has developped some mantra for this :P
anyway, congrat to have reached 2,000+ sentences in arabic it's already amazing :)

{{vm.hiddenReplies[435] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
saeb saeb April 8, 2010 April 8, 2010 at 12:51:02 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

thx sysko :), are you studying arabic behind our backs?...other than that idk how arabic can be amazing :P (lol @mantra)

JimBreen JimBreen April 6, 2010 April 6, 2010 at 2:21:49 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

There is a set of duplicate sentences which it would be good to clear up, but I don't really know how.

The Japanese "もし君が私と一緒に行かないのなら、私は行きたくない。" and the English "I don't want to go if you don't go with me. [M]" appear twice. Each has a French sentence attached, and the two French sentences are slightly different.

I can stop the duplication from appearing in WWWJDIC by deleting the indices of one of them, but it would be better if it could be collapsed into one set.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[422] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
TRANG TRANG April 6, 2010 April 6, 2010 at 6:54:23 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

If it was to be done manually, then one of the French sentences should be :

1) unlinked from its Japanese and English translations
2) link to the other Japanese and English sentences (which would then both have 2 French translations)
3) the Japanese-English pair without French translations has to be deleted.

But this should be done automatically by the duplicate deletion script, when we run it again.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[424] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
JimBreen JimBreen April 7, 2010 April 7, 2010 at 5:06:11 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I know how to do (1), but not (2), unless it is by entering it again.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[425] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
TRANG TRANG April 7, 2010 April 7, 2010 at 9:31:54 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Well, there is currently no way for you to do (2). I would have to do it.

Anyway, it is better to leave things as they are, so that we can check if our script handled the deletion and relinking properly in this specific case.

saeb saeb April 5, 2010 April 5, 2010 at 4:05:40 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

For audio on tatoeba...have this site been considered for a collaboration of some sort:

http://rhinospike.com

and if recording off a laptop's mic isn't an option, how should the recordings be done...how about in the future would it be more convenient?

{{vm.hiddenReplies[417] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
saeb saeb April 5, 2010 April 5, 2010 at 4:37:06 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

What about allowing users to directly link to audio files hosted on free (or not) hosting sites that allow audio streaming (for easier integration)?

TRANG TRANG April 5, 2010 April 5, 2010 at 2:01:36 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

We've discovered Rhinospike quite recently actually. But you know, we were in the phase of releasing all these new things, we didn't have time to consider contacting anyone (because we still need to live our lives and stuff ^^). Anyway, we just checked their license, it appears they are distributing their audio under CC-BY, just like we do! So yes, we will be contacting them and see what happens :)

Now, concerning not recording with your laptop's microphone, the key point was not really that you cannot record with your laptop's mic, but that *qualiy* is important. Usually, your laptop's mic will not give the best quality. However, I do not have any experience in sound, I don't know what is the cheapest way to get the best sound. But this is more something that you'll have to discuss with Shtooka.

Now the problem we're facing is a "Fast, cheap, good. Pick two" type of problem. Tatoeba is cheap for sure. If we pick "fast", then we could have lots of audio, not necessarily optimal for beginners, but always better than nothing. If we pick "good", then the audio we get will be more sustainable, in a way (no need to throw it and replace it), but this will exclude people who will not have the patience and determination to aim for quality (like 99% of people).

Despite of this, I decided to pick the "cheap and good". We are not in a hurry, and actually, we NEED time. The whole audio integration process has barely started. We don't really have a good platform to add audio... Right now, it's quite artisanal. You would have you rename your audio files with the id of the sentence and send them to us via email or something, so that we upload them in our server. Although, the good thing is, Shtooka has a good software that will let you record "massively".

Anyway, besides of that, audio is not really the "core" function of Tatoeba. Not that I don't want it, I've ALWAYS wanted it. But Tatoeba itself still needs a lot of improvements in order to reach a broader audience... not just in terms of features but also in terms of performance (that is, making it faster, and making sure it doesn't crash if we suddenly have thousands of visitor a day).

We decided to introduce audio in order to get awareness and mostly feedback (just like you did), so that we can start thinking about how we can adapt Tatoeba to make the audio integration easier. But things won't really be settled before AT LEAST a couple of months ^^

JimBreen JimBreen April 4, 2010 April 4, 2010 at 10:24:02 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Congratulations on the new kana versions of Japanese sentences. I like them much better than the old romaji. I see that it's overdoing the spaces a little, e.g. 背の高さ is becoming せ の たか さ when it's really a single "word", but that is really a minor point.

The generated simplified Chinese looks good too (not that I can make out too much of it.)

sysko sysko April 3, 2010 April 3, 2010 at 8:59:56 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

for those who wonder, the wall is now ordered by last reply and should be a bit faster than before :)

TRANG TRANG April 3, 2010 April 3, 2010 at 5:55:52 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

* To those who can link/unlink.

You have to be careful when unlinking. In order not to get it wrong, always link everything you can before you unlink.

The thing is, if you have the chain A-B-C, and you cut A-B, you won't be able to link A-C because C will not appear anymore.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[403] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
blay_paul blay_paul April 3, 2010 April 3, 2010 at 6:11:09 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

So, any chance of 'trusted user' status? There's a sentence here
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/21085
that needs unlinking from one of the others.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[404] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
TRANG TRANG April 3, 2010 April 3, 2010 at 6:17:39 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Ah, I forgot to say, even if you have the right to (un)link, you cannot (un)link everything.

If you want to unlink A-B, you have to be the owner of either A or B.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[405] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
MUIRIEL MUIRIEL April 3, 2010 April 3, 2010 at 6:54:21 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

is the owner of the other sentence informed if you unlink your sentence and his sentence?
If not, I suggest to implement this... even "trusted users" shouldn't be trusted too much ;).

great update, btw =)))!

{{vm.hiddenReplies[407] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
TRANG TRANG April 3, 2010 April 3, 2010 at 6:57:28 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I trust people a lot :P

But yes, your suggestion will be implemented. It's just a matter of time (as always).

{{vm.hiddenReplies[408] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
MUIRIEL MUIRIEL April 3, 2010 April 3, 2010 at 7:17:16 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I know, you even trust me :P...

{{vm.hiddenReplies[409] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
sysko sysko April 3, 2010 April 3, 2010 at 8:38:56 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

why ? we shouldn't trust you ? :p

blay_paul blay_paul April 3, 2010 April 3, 2010 at 6:52:39 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Got it. I think that one is sorted out now.

Note that you need to refresh the page after 'owning' a sentence to see the link / unlink icons.

blay_paul blay_paul April 3, 2010 April 3, 2010 at 12:48:26 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

クレジット or 謝辞 ?

Anyone have an opinion on whether クレジット, 謝辞 (or, indeed, something else entirely) should be used with the following interface elements?

https://translations.launchpad....AC%9D%E8%BE%9E

Pharamp Pharamp March 31, 2010 March 31, 2010 at 12:41:22 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Hellu!
How can I help to translate the Tatoeba interface into Italian?
There are a few errors and not everything is translated.

thanks!

{{vm.hiddenReplies[394] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
sysko sysko March 31, 2010 March 31, 2010 at 12:56:15 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

You need to register here, as this is the service we use to manage the translation of tatoeba
https://translations.launchpad..../+translations
and then from there you can translate the interface/ correct mistakes

feel free to ask if you have questions :)

{{vm.hiddenReplies[395] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
Pharamp Pharamp March 31, 2010 March 31, 2010 at 9:29:59 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Very goood, I've started with the translation!
When will be everything updated?

Anyway it's a working in progress project (but I'm really interested to complete it) because I can't find some of the sentences inside the site >.<

{{vm.hiddenReplies[397] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
sysko sysko March 31, 2010 March 31, 2010 at 10:25:35 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

cool
it will be updatet soon :p
http://tatoeba.org/fre/wall/show_message/360 when you don't find some sentences, and if you still don't find ask us ;-) you can send to me or Trang a pm

Pharamp Pharamp March 31, 2010 March 31, 2010 at 6:20:15 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

(just trying a thing)

Swift Swift March 28, 2010 March 28, 2010 at 12:04:43 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Regarding translations, I noticed that the German ones all seem to du-ts, rather than Sie-ts. Is that just the way the cards fell and best left alone?

{{vm.hiddenReplies[367] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
TRANG TRANG March 28, 2010 March 28, 2010 at 2:17:17 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Yes in general it's better to leave alone a sentence if by itself it doesn't have any spelling or grammatical mistake. Never mind if it's a correct translation or not.

=> http://blog.tatoeba.org/2010/02...eba.html#rule5

We will soon introduce a way to "unlink" sentences for problems related to incorrect translations.

Anyway, if you would like to see more "Sie", you have the right to another translation. It's not forbidden to have two German translations for one same English sentence :)

{{vm.hiddenReplies[368] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
Swift Swift March 28, 2010 March 28, 2010 at 2:38:31 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Sorry, that may have been a bit too unclear. I'm referring to the Tatoeba interface translation, not the sentences in the database.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[369] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
TRANG TRANG March 28, 2010 March 28, 2010 at 2:49:55 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Oooh, okay. Haha.

Well my friend Muiriel told me that it is more likely to see the use of "du" on German Web pages. She was the one who translated most of it. And as far as I'm concerned I can't really have an opinion on the matter, I'm nowhere near fluent in German.

But if you (or other German speakers have) an opinion on this (du vs. Sie), feel free to express it. We're not reluctant to change if there's a good reason for it.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[370] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
Swift Swift March 28, 2010 March 28, 2010 at 3:40:54 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Fair enough; I don't read enough German websites to contradict your friend. Of course commercial sites would refer to their customers with Sie, but Wikipedia seems to mainly use du in help and project namespaces (with occasional Sie's). The semi-commerical dict.leo.org, however, also uses Sie but there may well be plenty of other examples of similar sites that use the informal. I'll ask around as well.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[371] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
Liface Liface March 30, 2010 March 30, 2010 at 6:10:27 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I think it's best to use the informal. The formal in German is dying out, especially among the young generation. I'd say it's mostly young people who are using this site, anyway.

Maybe it could be decided on by sentence. Like "Hey, let's go to the movies" would be informal because you're rarely going to say that to someone you don't know, and "I'd like to have a talk with you about my salary" would be formal, because it's in a business situation.

JimBreen JimBreen April 6, 2010 April 6, 2010 at 7:24:29 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Re Trang's: "Yes in general it's better to leave alone a sentence if by itself it doesn't have any spelling or grammatical mistake. Never mind if it's a correct translation or not."

I think an exception to this is when there is a Japanese-English pair which have different meanings. Although Paul and I have removed or corrected hundreds of these over recent years, there are still quite a lot there. Our approach has been to amend one or both so that they agree in meaning. I think this needs to continue. When there is a 3rd or 4th language sentence linked, and that sentence has been translated from the English, it is more complicated. Then I think it is better to add an extra English sentence which matches the Japanese, then delink the non-matching pair.

I regularly encounter Japanese sentences with spelling mistakes, e.g. 性交 [8-}] when it should have been 性行 (they are pronounced the same). Then there is no alternative to correcting the Japanese.

MUIRIEL MUIRIEL March 31, 2010 March 31, 2010 at 12:31:59 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Oh, I saw the discussion just now^^:
As Swift mentions, Wikipedia uses "du" when appealing to its contributors. Facebook also uses du. I juste decided to follow their example as it seems the most common solution to me and as I also prefer "du". But if anyone doesn't like it, let's discuss it :)!

Trang, did you synchronize my latest launchpad translations? The status is "Translation unchanged since last synchronized", however I see many English sentences in the German version that I think having translated?

Es wäre toll, wenn mir andere Muttersprachler helfen könnten, Tatoeba vollständig und besser zu übersetzen :)!
https://translations.launchpad.net/tatoeba
Das, was ich schon übersetzt habe, könnte sicher in vielen Fällen besser gemacht werden. Und einiges habe ich auch gar nicht übersetzt, da mir bisher keine gute Lösung eingefallen ist.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[373] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
lilygilder lilygilder April 1, 2010 April 1, 2010 at 7:23:02 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I think "Sie" sounds much too reserved, communitywise "du" would be the better choice. But I don't visit many German websites either.

@Muiriel: Ich werd mal reinschaun, vielleicht übersetze ich heute noch ein paar Sätze. Ist schließlich noch ein langer Vormittag. ;)

{{vm.hiddenReplies[375] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
Swift Swift April 5, 2010 April 5, 2010 at 8:45:14 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Good, it seems there's a fair consensus on this, then. Thanks for the input.

TRANG TRANG March 31, 2010 March 31, 2010 at 11:50:27 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I didn't update the translations yet. It will be done this Saturday, some time in the afternoon. If you can translate more in the meantime, go ahead :P