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Wall (6,217 threads)

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Before asking a question, make sure to read the FAQ.

We aim to maintain a healthy atmosphere for civilized discussions. Please read our rules against bad behavior.

Latest messages subdirectory_arrow_right

Cabo

18 minutes ago

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tatoebashrek

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AlanF_US

47 minutes ago

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Pfirsichbaeumchen

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Shishir

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Tepan

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Shishir

yesterday

sharptoothed sharptoothed March 15, 2021 March 15, 2021 at 5:31:47 PM UTC link Permalink

** Stats & Graphs **

Tatoeba Stats, Graphs & Charts have been updated:
https://tatoeba.j-langtools.com/allstats/

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Guybrush88 Guybrush88 March 16, 2021 March 16, 2021 at 7:31:18 AM UTC link Permalink

thanks

CK CK March 13, 2021 March 13, 2021 at 8:37:39 AM UTC link Permalink

** Stats - Native Speakers **

http://tatoeba.ueuo.com/stats-2021-03-13.html

Find out who the native speakers are and the number of native-language sentences each has contributed.

I included a few more columns this week with data I personally wanted to know. Maybe you will find it interesting, too.

Shishir Shishir March 12, 2021 March 12, 2021 at 4:16:30 PM UTC link Permalink

Am I the only one who, when I'm in the main page in the upper part, where the random sentence is and I click on "show another (random sentence)" I only get the same random sentence again and again?

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Cabo Cabo March 12, 2021, edited March 12, 2021 March 12, 2021 at 4:24:59 PM UTC, edited March 12, 2021 at 4:26:41 PM UTC link Permalink

Yes, sometimes shows the same sentence. (not in the row)
(Random means predetermined, but not expected.)
May the random number generator generates numbers in a short range.

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Shishir Shishir March 12, 2021 March 12, 2021 at 4:45:59 PM UTC link Permalink

I don't mean that, it's normal that if I click 100 times there's a chance that I get the same sentence once or even twice, but if I click 20 times and I get the same sentence the 20 times... then I think something is wrong ^^'' what I don't know is whether it's my computer's problem or tatoeba's problem.

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Cabo Cabo March 12, 2021, edited March 12, 2021 March 12, 2021 at 4:57:36 PM UTC, edited March 12, 2021 at 6:22:43 PM UTC link Permalink

Then you had luck ...or bad luck.
I only know about a bug(?), when I change the language and it generates one with the previous language choice but shows with the new language's flag. (that can show twenty times the same sentence if I don't reload the page)

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Yorwba Yorwba March 12, 2021 March 12, 2021 at 8:34:37 PM UTC link Permalink

Am I understanding correctly that you changed the selected language for the random sentence and asked for a new sentence, but the new sentence you got was in the previously selected language? Did that happen recently? (The language selector was reworked some time ago, so it's possible that's a new bug that was introduced then (like what Shishir reported) or it could be an old bug that is now fixed.)

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Cabo Cabo March 12, 2021, edited March 12, 2021 March 12, 2021 at 8:44:30 PM UTC, edited March 12, 2021 at 8:44:45 PM UTC link Permalink

Umm, I reproducated it now, and I observed it more carefully.

So, I clicked the "latest comments" button, then I went back to the main page(I clicked the back arrow in my browser).
When I wanted it to show me a new sentence, it showed me the same, but different translations, when I changed the language the flag also changed, but the sentence remained the same, and also shows different translations.

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Yorwba Yorwba March 12, 2021 March 12, 2021 at 8:55:11 PM UTC link Permalink

Showing the same sentence with different flag and translations sounds like it might be a different problem. (Although potentially related.)

I tried to reproduce it just now, but couldn't. Maybe it's related to the way your browser handles the back button? I'm using Firefox 85.0.1 on Linux, what do you use?

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Cabo Cabo March 12, 2021, edited March 13, 2021 March 12, 2021 at 9:44:52 PM UTC, edited March 13, 2021 at 7:34:04 AM UTC link Permalink

It seems something hasn't loaded correctly.
I wasn't able to repeat how I did, but I made other way by clicking the "tatoeba" button.
Translations, flags, sentence numbers, author's names are changing, only the sentence remains the same.

Yorwba Yorwba March 12, 2021 March 12, 2021 at 8:27:27 PM UTC link Permalink

Thank you for the bug report. I opened a new GitHub issue to track this: https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/2645

As a temporary workaround, you can select a specific language for the random sentence and then clear the selection again.

DostKaplan DostKaplan March 10, 2021 March 10, 2021 at 3:26:08 PM UTC link Permalink

I have a suggestion. When I search for a word, the results should display EXACT matches FIRST (since that's what I was searching for!) followed by matches using variations on the search string. So, for example, if my search string is "shamelessly" (without the quotes), sentences containing "shamelessly" should appear at the top followed by sentences containing "shameless", etc. Yes, i know, if I want "shamelessly" exactly, then I should search for "=shamelessly" with the preceding equal sign. But why not just show the exact matches first based on the user's search string?

My search: https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...elessly&to=tur

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CK CK March 11, 2021, edited March 11, 2021 March 11, 2021 at 12:12:44 AM UTC, edited March 11, 2021 at 12:13:20 AM UTC link Permalink

This seems to make sense in some cases, like the one you mention.

However, perhaps for searching the "headword" of a word family, it is more useful to display results as they are currently displayed.

In other words, it's useful to get the various tenses of verbs, and related word forms when searching words like "open". (open, opens, opened, opening, openings)

However, I can see that it could also be useful for those who don't know how our search engine works to be able to search for "openings" and see sentences with that word first.

Perhaps all it would take is an additional line of text near the "Help" link explaining how to get exact matches.

That said, giving members the option to prioritize how they want their search results displayed would be a nice feature to have.

Here are some examples.

1. Show exact matches first, followed by the "fuzzy" matches.

2. Show sentences with audio first, followed by the rest.

3. Show sentences by those claiming to be native speakers first, followed by the rest.

-- At least for English this would also give results by those who aren't so truthful, and might perhaps encourage others to be less-than-truthful, too.

4. Show sentences on a certain list first, followed by the rest. This would give members the option of seeing the proofread sentences on my List 907 first.

Ricardo14 Ricardo14 March 8, 2021, edited March 8, 2021 March 8, 2021 at 7:24:49 PM UTC, edited March 8, 2021 at 8:10:14 PM UTC link Permalink

Happy International Women's Day!!!


» #3082628

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passerby passerby March 10, 2021 March 10, 2021 at 11:55:40 AM UTC link Permalink

It's a pity that no female member responded to your congratulation message.

Anyway, https://imgur.com/XmOy0uB

Pfirsichbaeumchen Pfirsichbaeumchen March 10, 2021 March 10, 2021 at 2:44:57 PM UTC link Permalink

Danke schön, Ricardo! 🙂

mraz mraz March 7, 2021 March 7, 2021 at 2:11:40 PM UTC link Permalink

HIBÁK a Hozzájárulásnál (magyar)
Fontos
Szeretjük a minőséget.
Minden részlet számít.
Kérjük ne feledje el az írásjeleket és a nagybetűket. >>
Kérjük, ne felejtkezzen el az írásjelekről és a nagybetűkről.

Szeretjük a sokszínűséget.

Engedje szabadjára a kreativitását! >>
Engedje szabadjára a fantáziáját!

Mellőzze ugyanazon szavak, nevek, témák,
vagy mintázatok újra és újra felhasználatását. >>>>

Kérjük, mellőzze ugyanazon szavak, nevek, témák újra és újra felhasználását.

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Cabo Cabo March 7, 2021 March 7, 2021 at 2:44:34 PM UTC link Permalink

Már jelezted egyszer. Már válaszoltam egyszer.
https://tatoeba.org/eng/wall/sh...#message_36580

gillux gillux March 4, 2021 March 4, 2021 at 6:10:08 PM UTC link Permalink

Dear all,

At the moment, links to wiki articles are all pointing to the English wiki. For example, the Quick Start Guide link in the page footer always brings you to the English wiki article, even if you are browsing Tatoeba in a different language. This is a shame since some articles have been localized in other languages, but the average user might not notice it.

I am in the process of fixing this. Starting from next week, all the wiki links will be adjusted according to the language you are browsing Tatoeba into (giving that the article exists in that language; otherwise it will fall back to the English one).

Since this change is going to bring more exposure to non English wikis, I’d like to call for help on translating the wiki and proofread existing translations, in particular the following articles:

Quick Start Guide https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...ow/quick-start
FAQ https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/articles/show/faq
Text search https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...ow/text-search

Note that you need to create an account to edit the wiki. Send me a private message if you need help on this.

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soliloquist soliloquist March 5, 2021, edited March 5, 2021 March 5, 2021 at 1:37:44 PM UTC, edited March 5, 2021 at 1:37:59 PM UTC link Permalink

Thanks for working on it! It seems you found a better method to redirect wiki pages, other than using Transifex. (https://github.com/Tatoeba/tatoeba2/issues/2626 )

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gillux gillux March 5, 2021 March 5, 2021 at 6:10:49 PM UTC link Permalink

Yes, no special action is needed by translators. All the links pointing to the wiki will just update automatically. (If you just created a new wiki article, you’ll have to wait for up to one hour before the link updates though.)

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AlanF_US AlanF_US March 5, 2021 March 5, 2021 at 10:25:55 PM UTC link Permalink

The FAQ section on simplified and traditional Chinese characters ( https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...-i-use-simplif ) looks like this:

:::
When browsing sentences, if you set the Chinese sentence as the main sentence, you will see an additional icon at the top of the sentence.

- traditional traditional
- simplified simplified
:::

Notice the doubled words.

If you edit the page, it is displayed like this:

* ![traditional](http://tatoeba.org/img/traditional_chinese.png) traditional
* ![simplified](http://tatoeba.org/img/simplified_chinese.png) simplified

Maybe the png images have been lost and need to be uploaded again?

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AlanF_US AlanF_US March 5, 2021 March 5, 2021 at 10:36:17 PM UTC link Permalink

While exploring this further, I came up with another problem. Usually, I write these up as issue tickets, but I wasn't sure to put it in the tatoeba2 area or the tatowiki area (does that still get read?).

If you edit a wiki page, a box in the upper right-hand sidebar appears that says this:

:::
Actions

Upload a new image
View all images
:::

The second link, "View all images", is associated with this URL:

https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/articles/edit/list-all

But following that link takes you to a page that says "Create a new article", which is probably not correct.

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gillux gillux March 6, 2021 March 6, 2021 at 7:18:39 PM UTC link Permalink

As for bugs within the wiki website, this is a whole different story because the wiki was created by sysko about 10 years ago using very exotic (and now unmaintained) framework only he is familiar with. I might be able to fix simple issues but it is generally tedious.

That being said, I set up a separate wiki instance on the dev platform at https://wiki.dev.tatoeba.org, and a wiki instance is now bundled in the latest Imouto virtual machine. This will certainly ease any kind of future work on the wiki.

CK CK March 6, 2021 March 6, 2021 at 4:00:50 AM UTC link Permalink

Since our flags got changed to svg, I tried that, but these get NOT FOUND errors, too.

https://tatoeba.org/img/traditional_chinese.svg
https://tatoeba.org/img/simplified_chinese.svg

This is the URL for a flag icon.
https://tatoeba.org/img/flags/eng.svg

Perhaps @gillux knows where the new location for these files is.

gillux gillux March 6, 2021 March 6, 2021 at 7:05:28 PM UTC link Permalink

Maybe you need to change the links from http to https? For a currently working example, have a look at this page https://fr.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...w/premiers-pas I remember that the wiki syntax for images is confusing because what you see in the instant preview (below the text edition area) isn’t exactly what you get after saving.

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AlanF_US AlanF_US March 6, 2021, edited March 6, 2021 March 6, 2021 at 9:05:04 PM UTC, edited March 6, 2021 at 9:06:06 PM UTC link Permalink

The French FAQ page gives these URLs:

Traditional:
https://tatoeba.org/img/scripts/Hant.svg =16x16

Simplified:
https://tatoeba.org/img/scripts/Hans.svg =16x16

However, trying to follow them as they are results in 404 errors. If I remove the " =16x16", I can see the icons, but they're far too large.

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Yorwba Yorwba March 6, 2021 March 6, 2021 at 9:18:36 PM UTC link Permalink

Since the French FAQ page displays those images correctly, I think that the =16x16 is part of the wiki syntax to limit the size to 16 pixels by 16 pixels.

As for where those images show up, they're only used in the old design. The new design replaces them with a corner arrow ↳.

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AlanF_US AlanF_US March 6, 2021 March 6, 2021 at 9:40:22 PM UTC link Permalink

I see, thanks. This enabled me to fix the English FAQ page.

gillux gillux March 6, 2021 March 6, 2021 at 7:20:18 PM UTC link Permalink

Note that the wiki links showing at the footer of https://dev.tatoeba.org are now pointing to the articles of the dev wiki at https://wiki.dev.tatoeba.org. This effectively shows you a preview of how it will be like next week on tatoeba.org.

CK CK February 24, 2021 February 24, 2021 at 6:18:30 AM UTC link Permalink

** Audio by CK **

The number of English sentences with audio recorded by me has now gone over 550,000.

You can find the sentences with the most-recently added audio files at the top of this list.
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...direction=desc



30,589 (5.6%) of these sentences do not yet have translations into any language.
Perhaps you would like to be the first one to translate some of these.

Sort: Random
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...de&sort=random

Sort: Last Created
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...e&sort=created

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Objectivesea Objectivesea February 24, 2021 February 24, 2021 at 6:39:20 AM UTC link Permalink

Congratulations, CK. That's a marvellous and unstintingly generous contribution, for which the entire Tatoeba community thanks you.

DJ_Saidez DJ_Saidez February 24, 2021, edited February 24, 2021 February 24, 2021 at 7:15:01 AM UTC, edited February 24, 2021 at 7:15:16 AM UTC link Permalink

録音いっぱいな~、凄い!
おめでとうございます🎉🎉🎉

CK CK February 24, 2021, edited February 24, 2021 February 24, 2021 at 7:34:31 AM UTC, edited February 24, 2021 at 7:35:54 AM UTC link Permalink

If you want to see if any of your English sentences have audio by me, change the "Owner" field in this preset advanced search form from "DJ_Saidez" to your own username, then click "Search.

https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...=&sort=created

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helloroto helloroto February 24, 2021 February 24, 2021 at 9:45:37 AM UTC link Permalink

550,000 is a hard number to comprehend, but it's absolutely crazy to me how many of these sentences I throw into the void get audio added by you. What an achievement, congrats!

CK CK March 5, 2021 March 5, 2021 at 9:24:18 AM UTC link Permalink

I created a page listing all members who have English sentences that I've recorded.

http://tatoeba.ueuo.com/stats-2...-engaudio.html

You can click the links to see these members' English sentences that have audio.

There are currently 551,981 sentences with audio that I've added.

AlanF_US AlanF_US March 5, 2021 March 5, 2021 at 3:42:30 AM UTC link Permalink

When you see a sentence thread that has 96 comments, does that make you more inclined to leave another one? When you see that seven of those comments call to the admins, but no admin has replied yet, do you conclude that another call to the admins is likely to do the trick? When you see that a particular style of punctuation brings widespread criticism, do you persist in it? When you see that someone loves nothing more in life than to stir up an argument, do you oblige them?

Or do you just focus on adding high-quality sentences, translations, and corrections rather than trying to insist that everyone adhere to your interpretation of the rules?

I see both approaches being applied here, but you might be able to guess which one I think gets us closer to our goal.

Tepan Tepan February 22, 2021 February 22, 2021 at 4:14:48 PM UTC link Permalink

Dear Admins,

in my opinion, this sentence
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/4470815

violates the Tatoeba guidelines:
https://en.wiki.tatoeba.org/art...how/guidelines

"Use correct capitalization and punctuation.
Sentences should be written in the normal way that an educated native speaker would write them."

My opinion is: either the guidelines are clear and can be followed, at which point you should react accordingly and block the author for repeatedly trolling us, or the guidelines are vague and should be updated in order to avoid lengthy discussions.

Regards
Stephan

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helloroto helloroto February 22, 2021 February 22, 2021 at 10:05:42 PM UTC link Permalink

Can the comments at least get shut down? It's just turned to vitriol

Thanuir Thanuir February 23, 2021 February 23, 2021 at 5:30:19 PM UTC link Permalink

Vaikka sacredceltic ei kerääkään itselleen ystäviä, taitaa hän kuitenkin olla oikeassa. Englanti, myös oikein kirjoitettu englanti, on hyvin laaja käsite. Tatoeba myös hyväksyy vanhahtavaa kieltä, murteita, slangia, ja niin edelleen, joten eiköhän se muutamista erilaisista pilkutustavoistakin selviä. Samoin erilaiset lainausmerkit ovat täysin hyväksyttäviä ja esimerkiksi koneoppimisen kannalta on jopa hyvä, jos sisältö on mahdollisimman monimuotoista.

Kuten aina, suosittelen että kukin keskittyy luomaan sellaista sisältöä, jota itse toivoo näkevänsä, ja antaa muiden tehdä samaa, kunhan ei selkeitä virheitä tule vastaan.

Ja ken omaa linkitysoikeuden voi samalla linkittää lauseet, jotka eroavat pelkällä välilyönnillä tai välilyönnin tyypillä toisistaan.

Tepan Tepan March 3, 2021 March 3, 2021 at 7:03:44 AM UTC link Permalink

@tatoebaadmins

Worth a bump!

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brauchinet brauchinet March 3, 2021 March 3, 2021 at 7:19:47 AM UTC link Permalink

> Worth a bump!
Shouldn't there be a space before the exclamation mark ?

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sacredceltic sacredceltic March 3, 2021 March 3, 2021 at 11:51:46 PM UTC link Permalink

Definitely !

Nero Nero March 4, 2021 March 4, 2021 at 2:54:38 PM UTC link Permalink

I agree. This kind of behavior has directly contributed to users leaving the project over the years. It's been the same nonsensical Dickens and typewriter arguments for probably 10 years now. The admins are and have been aware of this exact issue and other issues of this nature for years now and haven't taken action.

Your best course of action is to add the "non-standard punctuation" tag and move on. The other option is becoming annoyed enough with people injecting their political beliefs into spacing before punctuation that you too eventually leave the project.

Everyone knows that conventions are no replacement for a governing body for a language and therefore have no power to determine how a language is used...

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Ooneykcall Ooneykcall March 4, 2021 March 4, 2021 at 6:28:05 PM UTC link Permalink

A governing body has the power to control how you use language beyond official settings? What a totalitarian nightmare that would be!

helloroto helloroto March 4, 2021 March 4, 2021 at 6:49:31 PM UTC link Permalink

I guess it's over then.

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DJ_Saidez DJ_Saidez March 4, 2021 March 4, 2021 at 6:49:59 PM UTC link Permalink

Sadly, far from it

sacredceltic sacredceltic March 4, 2021 March 4, 2021 at 9:12:58 PM UTC link Permalink

You bet ?

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helloroto helloroto March 4, 2021 March 4, 2021 at 9:40:55 PM UTC link Permalink

I couldn't see the option to comment, so I assumed no one else could, so I assumed the discussion was over. I was wrong, it was getting really juicy.

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sacredceltic sacredceltic March 4, 2021 March 4, 2021 at 11:45:37 PM UTC link Permalink

Lorsque deux personnes sont du même avis, l’une d’elles est inutile.
Vive la dialectique et mort aux idées reçues !