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Wall (6,253 threads)

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QAzaqQA QAzaqQA April 27, 2021 April 27, 2021 at 5:42:26 PM UTC link Permalink

List of the Tamazight dialects available on Tatoeba:

Taqbaylit - Kabyle
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc.../MessDjaaf/ber
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...BakirHamou/ber
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/of_user/Inal

Tarifit - Riffian
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...er/Amgaray/ber

Tamaziɣt n tlemmast n Meṛṛuk - Central Moroccan Berber
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...ahaMansoub/ber
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...Belarhzali/ber
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...medzakaria/ber

Tanfusit - Nafusi (Libya)
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...er/madghis/ber

Tumẓabt - Mozabite
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentenc...er/Uyezjen/ber
https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/of_user/rostom
http://bit.ly/2zZKvju

Tamaceɣt - Tuareg
http://bit.ly/2qStu6P

These are a group of Languages which are presently in one Label. If there are any native speakers active, they can ask for the addition of the 5 languages present now in Tatoeba under one label.

https://github.com/Tatoeba/tato...uest.md&title=

is the site or they can message me so that I can request for the addition of these 5 Languages already present.

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Cabo Cabo April 27, 2021 April 27, 2021 at 6:06:58 PM UTC link Permalink

आपके पास कितने हिंदी वाक्य हैं?

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QAzaqQA QAzaqQA April 27, 2021 April 27, 2021 at 6:21:55 PM UTC link Permalink

I know Hindi to some extent but I know English even better.

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Cabo Cabo April 27, 2021 April 27, 2021 at 6:25:09 PM UTC link Permalink

to some extent, but that's why got 5 stars

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QAzaqQA QAzaqQA April 27, 2021 April 27, 2021 at 6:29:27 PM UTC link Permalink

It is my native Language.

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Amastan Amastan April 28, 2021 April 28, 2021 at 11:14:47 AM UTC link Permalink

The owners of the sentences contributed in those dialects are opposed to the division of the Amazigh language into multiple separate dialects/languages.

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QAzaqQA QAzaqQA April 30, 2021 April 30, 2021 at 10:14:18 AM UTC link Permalink

@Amastan There is already Tarifit and also Standard Moroccan Tamazight in Tatoeba so can I use your Tamasheq sentences for requesting Tamasheq which is spoken in Algeria, Mali, Niger, and Burkina Faso.

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sacredceltic sacredceltic April 30, 2021 April 30, 2021 at 12:50:05 PM UTC link Permalink

Et voilà les agents de la relativisation du berbère à l’œuvre ...

Shishir Shishir April 29, 2021 April 29, 2021 at 11:25:20 AM UTC link Permalink

You skipped the point of contacting the Language Team and a few other instructions. If people do what you ask them to and then contact you to add the language they'll most likely not be added for not fulfilling the requirements, and as you've learned by yourself, it doesn't help to create the Github request without asking anyone.The true instructions are:


Please, keep in mind that we need

✔ As many sentences as possible in the target language;
✔ A suitable flag;
✔ The ISO 639-3 code;
✔ A list which contains sentences in this language (you can create one here - https://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences_lists/index)
✔ Any information about this language (e.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language );

So, send this information and any question you have to language-team@tatoeba.org or PM the Language Team

But you're blocking the possibility to add these languages by adding sentences from users who don't want to contribute in these languages but in the Berber corpus. You should leave those lists empty until you find someone who really wants to add one of these languages and then take sentences only from that user.

sacredceltic sacredceltic April 21, 2021 April 21, 2021 at 8:02:25 PM UTC link Permalink

Sans réponse à ma demande d’explication quant à la censure dont ma précédente publication a été l’objet, je tente à nouveau ma chance, car je voudrais vraiment comprendre ce qui a été censuré. Ça me semble totalement arbitraire...

Donc j’y disais qu’il serait intéressant de mesurer le taux de proximité de deux langues, par exemple le « moldave » et le roumain, en mesurant le pourcentage de phrases Tatoeba qui sont identiques, en ignorant la casse et la ponctuation, entre les corpus de ces 2 langues.

Je serais particulièrement intéressé par les taux d’identité entre le « kabyle » et le berbère ou entre le « bosnien «  et le croate, entre autres, mais je suis bien convaincu que de nombreux autres membres seront intéressés par d’autres paires de langues, dont les différences sont encore plus exotiques...

Dans l’idéal, il faudrait également pouvoir ignorer le type d’écriture. Évidemment c’est plus compliqué...

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Thanuir Thanuir April 22, 2021 April 22, 2021 at 4:53:56 AM UTC link Permalink

Tämä olisi vaikeaa jo sen takia, että kielet eivät ole yksi-yhteen -suhteessa toisiinsa.

Helpompaa olisi varmaan kysyä, että kuinka monella kielen A lauseella on täysin vastaava (poislukien välimerkit ja isot alkukirjaimet tai mitä nyt ikinä) käännös kielessä B. Se olisi periaatteessa mahdollista selvittää, mutta kertoisi lähinnä, että kielen A otos Tatoebassa on osajoukko kielen B otoksesta.

Jos tästä haluaa symmetrisen mitan, voi mittaa käyttää molempiin suuntiin. Mutta tulos kertoisi silti enemmän Tatoebasta kuin kielistä.

Tämä taitaa olla yksi niitä asioita, että jos se kiinnostaa, pitää se tehdä itse.

Igider Igider April 22, 2021, edited April 23, 2021 April 22, 2021 at 1:42:36 PM UTC, edited April 23, 2021 at 4:14:52 PM UTC link Permalink

Oh mon pauvre cette censure n'est rien à côté de la suppression du drapeau Kabyle, le symbole de tout un peuple (car quel kabyle qui serait contre la souveraineté de son territoire ? Contre sa propre existence ?) !

Tu n'auras aucune réponse ! Car ironiquement le fait de répondre, ou de censurer est un acte politique !

On nous l'a supprimé seulement parce qu'un contributeur "mascotte" a pleurniché 3 secondes car le drapeau kabyle porte atteinte à son unité nationale algérienne "arabe et musulmane" (voir la constitution algérienne) et ça blessait son magnifique égo.

Malgré le quasi soutien des contributeurs kabyles eh bien il a suffit de 3 chats "berbères" (algériens, il faut le préciser et d'origine kabyle de surcroît), pour que notre honorable drapeau soit supprimé sans aucune autre forme de procès !

;-)

NB : Le 20 Avril a été commémoré qu'en Kabylie, pourtant il est dit "Printemps berbère".
https://vava-innova.com/article...de-la-kabylie/

Les policiers colonialistes algériens qui essayaient d'intimider des milliers de souverainistes kabyles 20/04/2021 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FXgtIkkdf8

Ce message sera censuré ! LOL

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Yagurten Yagurten April 22, 2021 April 22, 2021 at 5:52:37 PM UTC link Permalink

Excuse me but I think that such comments should not be tolerated on the wall. I see too many insults and provocation. I am Kabyle myself but also Algerian, so show some respect please. If you don't want to be Algerian, fine, but stop insulting Algeria and its people in front of this website's international audience. It's such a shame and people doing so are only making fools of themselves.

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Ricardo14 Ricardo14 April 23, 2021 April 23, 2021 at 2:52:49 PM UTC link Permalink

+1

We should focus on translating and adding sentences. Besides, it's supposed that we're mature adults.

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Yagurten Yagurten April 23, 2021 April 23, 2021 at 6:04:23 PM UTC link Permalink

+1 Well said, Ricardo14. Thank you.

QAzaqQA QAzaqQA April 26, 2021 April 26, 2021 at 2:52:14 PM UTC link Permalink

@Ricardo14 Can the addition of new languages be made simpler?

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Ricardo14 Ricardo14 April 26, 2021, edited April 26, 2021 April 26, 2021 at 4:57:20 PM UTC, edited April 26, 2021 at 6:01:07 PM UTC link Permalink

Actually many people requested language using this "method" and it worked. It *doesn't* mean that there's room for improvement, but we need to know how can we do it. For that, we (also) have to answer some of those questions

What have the requesters struggled on requesting languages?
Is this process too bureaucratic or should it be even more? Why?
Are we failing on having a close approach to the language requesters?

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QAzaqQA QAzaqQA April 26, 2021, edited April 26, 2021 April 26, 2021 at 6:23:34 PM UTC, edited April 26, 2021 at 6:24:18 PM UTC link Permalink

It is very bureaucratic to send an email to Tatoeba Language Team and it woud be better to link Github Language request so that a message automatically comes to Tatoeba Language Team so that just list and Github request would be enough.

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Ricardo14 Ricardo14 April 26, 2021 April 26, 2021 at 6:37:35 PM UTC link Permalink

We need to assure that we have good sentences, that the language icon (aka flag is appropriated), etc. Unfortunately, some bureaucracy is needed but again, there's room for improvement. Again, we'd need to know why/if is that too annoying and how. We'd need a good description about this matter.

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QAzaqQA QAzaqQA April 26, 2021 April 26, 2021 at 6:41:12 PM UTC link Permalink

Github already gets language requests and the email would have the same information so sending email would be double the work when Github already gets the requests.

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gillux gillux April 26, 2021 April 26, 2021 at 7:28:16 PM UTC link Permalink

Github is primarily used by developers to write code. Developers don’t have the skill to process language requests, that’s why the language team should be contacted first. They make sure that everything’s fine (language icon, sentences, naming etc.), and only then they create the relevant Github issue so that developers can implement the new language in the code.

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QAzaqQA QAzaqQA April 26, 2021 April 26, 2021 at 7:37:55 PM UTC link Permalink

I got this but @Ricardo14 is closing language requests made properly.

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gillux gillux April 26, 2021 April 26, 2021 at 7:41:00 PM UTC link Permalink

These were closed because you did not contact the language team first.

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QAzaqQA QAzaqQA April 26, 2021 April 26, 2021 at 7:49:39 PM UTC link Permalink

The Language team was contacted first for many requests but still they were removed.

QAzaqQA QAzaqQA April 27, 2021 April 27, 2021 at 2:08:16 PM UTC link Permalink

Why did you close independent requests by a new account in Tatoeba Github?

gillux gillux April 26, 2021 April 26, 2021 at 7:37:50 PM UTC link Permalink

I believe it’s easier to send an email than to open a Github issue (not to mention creating a Github account and figuring out how to open an issue).

No matter whether the language requests would be initially made through Github or email, they need to be reviewed by the language team.

QAzaqQA QAzaqQA April 27, 2021, edited April 27, 2021 April 27, 2021 at 2:10:23 PM UTC, edited April 27, 2021 at 2:12:12 PM UTC link Permalink

There are some very biased people here in Tatoeba. Just like how your flag was not added to Kabyle, even requests for other Amazigh Languages are not entertained here by these biased people. Take Care @Igider.

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Igider Igider April 28, 2021, edited April 28, 2021 April 28, 2021 at 8:50:35 AM UTC, edited April 28, 2021 at 8:55:37 AM UTC link Permalink

Indeed my dear @QAzaqQA unfortunately what you say is the reality. Tatoeba doesn't look for the accuracy of the information for ideological reasons, but prefers to be in cahoots with some zealous people. Frankly, remove a flag by simple request of an individual belonging to another language? In spite of a hundred Kabyle contributors?... it is the height of injustice.

Moreover this person does not respect any Berber language by treating them as dialects and mixing them to create an undrinkable soup by all Berbers (Algeria, Morocco, Libya, Egypt, Canary Islands, Tunisia ...) !

The worst thing is that the administrators of Tatoeba put this individual on a pedestal.

Thank you for your understanding, it is very rare. Take care of yourself too.

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QAzaqQA QAzaqQA April 28, 2021 April 28, 2021 at 8:54:31 AM UTC link Permalink

@Igider I face problems to add languages like Nafusi, Riffian, Tuareg, Central Atlas Tamazight and Mozabite languages which actually have sentences in Tatoeba. Thanks for your understanding.

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Igider Igider April 28, 2021, edited April 28, 2021 April 28, 2021 at 8:58:50 AM UTC, edited April 28, 2021 at 9:14:59 AM UTC link Permalink

@QAzaqQA

Your approach is scientific because each Berber people has its own language! So logically and fairly they must have their own symbols (flag, transcription, ....). Thank you for your relevant and scientific contribution.

The Berber flag is a unifying flag of all Berbers! To mix them is to harm them and so not respecting them.

It's like putting a European flag for English, French,... I don't think American, English or French contributors would approve that! Imagine if on top of that we mix these languages and we will say that it is the European language!

Unfortunately, lies are always one step ahead of the truth! That is politics! And that is ignorance!

In a few months, we will be asked to forgive...

Good luck !

Cabo Cabo April 22, 2021 April 22, 2021 at 2:17:04 PM UTC link Permalink

The sample is too little.

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sacredceltic sacredceltic April 23, 2021 April 23, 2021 at 8:20:27 PM UTC link Permalink

You want to mean it’s too small...

gillux gillux April 23, 2021 April 23, 2021 at 6:22:57 PM UTC link Permalink

Ce serait intéressant effectivement. Peut-être faisable avec Tatoeba-playground: https://github.com/agrodet/Tatoeba-playground

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sacredceltic sacredceltic April 23, 2021 April 23, 2021 at 7:03:30 PM UTC link Permalink

Ah merci Gillux, enfin quelqu’un qui comprend de quoi je parle et de l’intérêt que ça peut avoir ! Peut-être as-tu une idée de pourquoi ma requête précédente, sur ce même sujet, a été censurée et par qui ?
Aujourd’hui, entre Xi, Vladimir, et Recep, il y a une telle surenchère de censure qu’on n’est plus sûr de rien 😉

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gillux gillux April 23, 2021 April 23, 2021 at 7:06:40 PM UTC link Permalink

Non, je n’en sais rien.

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sacredceltic sacredceltic April 23, 2021 April 23, 2021 at 7:10:50 PM UTC link Permalink

Et tu ne trouves pas ça inquiétant qu’il y ait une sorte de Big Brother qui censure des publications sans que tu saches pourquoi ?

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gillux gillux April 23, 2021 April 23, 2021 at 7:39:35 PM UTC link Permalink

Non, car je pars du principe que les gens sont de bonne volonté. Je crois que nous avons des opinions assez différentes à ce sujet et je n’ai pas envie de poursuivre ce débat avec toi. Si tu le veux bien, revenons-en au calcul de la similitude entre les langues. Je pense que ce calcul serait intéressant pour créer une sorte de nuage de langues, où les langues proches seraient rassemblées en grappes. Ou encore, pouvoir suggérer des langues à apprendre aux polyglottes, genre "si vous connaissez les langues x et y, alors la langue la plus facile à apprendre pour vous est z"

Mais bon, je pense que je rêve un peu car comme le dit Thanuir, l’analyse en dira toujours plus sur Tatoeba que sur les langues elles-même. Cabo pense aussi que l’échantillon est trop petit.

En plus, si on se limite à une bête comparaison des caractères, comme tu le suggères dans ton message initial, l’analyse serait très simple mais très limitée. Il faudrait aussi et surtout analyser selon d’autres critères comme la syntaxe (ordre des mots), la grammaire (je pense au coréen et au japonais qui sont très proches grammaticalement mais éloignés graphiquement), le vocabulaire (si un mot est transparent d’une langue à l’autre mais que la syntaxe est différente, pas évident de faire le lien)…

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sacredceltic sacredceltic April 23, 2021 April 23, 2021 at 8:17:01 PM UTC link Permalink

La censure n’est jamais « de bonne volonté ».
Elle a toujours une motivation, rarement avouable ...

Mais je suis bien content que tu t’intéresses à ce sujet, qui est vraiment intéressant !
Tu as raison sur les limites. Je le vois de la même manière : il faut dépasser la graphie, la syntaxe, la grammaire...que de projets d’études linguistiques !

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gillux gillux April 24, 2021 April 24, 2021 at 1:31:13 AM UTC link Permalink

Voici une piste théorique : https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_embedding

TRANG TRANG April 29, 2021 April 29, 2021 at 7:15:36 PM UTC link Permalink

> Sans réponse à ma demande d’explication quant à la censure dont ma
> précédente publication a été l’objet, je tente à nouveau ma chance, car je
> voudrais vraiment comprendre ce qui a été censuré.

Juste pour info, j'ai enlevé la censure. En lisant les messages, je ne comprends pas non plus pourquoi ça a été censuré, mais c'est un autre sujet.

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sacredceltic sacredceltic April 29, 2021 April 29, 2021 at 8:55:21 PM UTC link Permalink

Ben NON, justement, ce n’est pas un AUTRE SUJET. Il y a des apprentis dictateurs parmi les ADMINISTRATEURS de Tatoeba qui TERRORISENT les contributeurs en s’arrogeant les droits de SUPPRIMER des commentaires et des phrases sans raison.
Tatoeba est devenu une ZONE DE NON DROIT.
Réagissez !!!

sacredceltic sacredceltic April 29, 2021 April 29, 2021 at 9:00:54 PM UTC link Permalink

Et pour commencer, vous devriez exclure de l’administration des Corpus des gens qui sont en fait des MILITANTS LINGUISTIQUES. Administrer un corpus nécessite de la RAISON et de la TEMPÉRANCE, pas du MILITANTISME...

QAzaqQA QAzaqQA April 27, 2021 April 27, 2021 at 6:32:47 PM UTC link Permalink

Can Tumẓabt (mzb) be reopened as necessary procedures were followed now? All the sentences in the list are from Tatoeba. There are about 4790 total sentences which are more than Croatian and many Languages in Tatoeba.

QAzaqQA QAzaqQA April 27, 2021, edited April 27, 2021 April 27, 2021 at 6:20:51 PM UTC, edited April 27, 2021 at 6:28:49 PM UTC link Permalink

Can Central Atlas Tamazight (tzm) be reopened as necessary procedures were followed now? All the sentences in the list are from Tatoeba. There are 1360 total sentences which are more than Welsh and many Languages in Tatoeba.

QAzaqQA QAzaqQA April 27, 2021 April 27, 2021 at 4:47:40 PM UTC link Permalink

@samir_t You contribute excellent sentences for Kabyle and excellent translations.

QAzaqQA QAzaqQA April 27, 2021 April 27, 2021 at 3:29:21 PM UTC link Permalink

@madghis You seem to be a native speaker of Nafusi and had not added any language in your profile. It seems you contributed to Berber which is a Macrolanguage category and has many varieties. Nafusi (jbn) has an ISO 639-3 code. I have made a request in Github in your honor. I hope your Language is added so that you can add your Native Language in your Profile which you know fluently. I thank you for your Contributions to Tatoeba.

QAzaqQA QAzaqQA April 27, 2021 April 27, 2021 at 1:56:54 PM UTC link Permalink

Other than @Ricardo14, it seems no one can contribute languages.

QAzaqQA QAzaqQA April 26, 2021 April 26, 2021 at 7:37:09 PM UTC link Permalink

Kalashamondr, Tosk Abanian, X̌ik zik and Yaghnobi were given proper requests by both email and Github. Can they be reopened? @Ricardo14

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Cabo Cabo April 27, 2021 April 27, 2021 at 5:48:23 AM UTC link Permalink

You inject data collectively from other sources, and you want to request a bunch of languages.
"Can they be ropened?"
That'll never happen.

Your sentences in a row:
1. Tal’ey dura paron dura pay, te bo wat tara hin.
2. Tal’ey-o tan bacahiuna hatya te pishtyak, dadas kay amaaw ki: “Ai parik-day homa aya pashialak hiu-day, homa dada” ghõi amaal-e, baca tasi hatya bo saman tasi praw.-day te ahutaw sunukur asta gri.
3. Te pay shatara jaygauna azhal’an-e se istrizha tasi wal’ thi aaw ja ne thi.

What I found here in the page of 197: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi...3.2015.1069049
"Tal’ey dura paron dura pay, te bo wat tara hin. Tal’ey-o tan bacahiuna
hatya te pishtyak, dadas kay amaaw ki: “Ai parik-day homa aya pashialak
hiu-day, homa dada” ghõi amaal-e, baca tasi hatya bo saman tasi praw.-day te
ahutaw sunukur asta gri.
Te pay shatara jaygauna azhal’an-e se istrizha tasi wal’ thi aaw ja ne thi."

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QAzaqQA QAzaqQA April 27, 2021, edited April 27, 2021 April 27, 2021 at 7:42:35 AM UTC, edited April 27, 2021 at 7:42:52 AM UTC link Permalink

That is a folk story so no Copyright.

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Cabo Cabo April 27, 2021 April 27, 2021 at 8:03:56 AM UTC link Permalink

Even if... and you still not speak the language.

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QAzaqQA QAzaqQA April 27, 2021 April 27, 2021 at 8:38:24 AM UTC link Permalink

I am a learner of this Language.

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Cabo Cabo April 27, 2021 April 27, 2021 at 8:47:01 AM UTC link Permalink

A learner, and you want to copy-paste things instead of translating.
What did that help to you?

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QAzaqQA QAzaqQA April 27, 2021 April 27, 2021 at 8:53:10 AM UTC link Permalink

I can translate the folk stories.

Ricardo14 Ricardo14 April 27, 2021 April 27, 2021 at 6:25:04 AM UTC link Permalink

Opening a ticket on GitHub and/or following all the procedures described in the Wiki **doesn't** mean that the language request will be accepted at all. If the sentences are not reliable or have some copyrighted issues, we unfortunately can't add that language on Tatoeba.

Thanuir Thanuir April 27, 2021 April 27, 2021 at 11:31:15 AM UTC link Permalink

Suosittelen, että opettelet riittävästi kieltä, jotta voit lisätä uusia lauseita tai muodostaa uusia lauseita olemassaolevista lähteistä.

Toinen vaihtoehto olisi tuoda sisältöä jostain hyvin selkeästi tekijänoikeusvapaasta lähteestä, mutta tällöinkin sinun olisi hyvä ymmärtää kieltä niin hyvin, että tunnistat, mitkä näistä ovat kokonaisia lauseita ja tolkullisia Tatoeba-lauseita. Tässä tilanteessa kannattanee jutella ylläpitäjien kanssa.

QAzaqQA QAzaqQA April 26, 2021 April 26, 2021 at 7:03:10 PM UTC link Permalink

@Ricardo14 Why are you taking down requests of a language. Do you have anything against adding more languages? The requester is not very important but the Language is.

QAzaqQA QAzaqQA April 26, 2021 April 26, 2021 at 7:01:37 PM UTC link Permalink

@Ricardo14 Why are you taking down Yaghnobi. Do you have anything against the language?