Azul. Walaɣ aṭas i tseggmeḍ, d ayen igerrzen, nessaram ad seggment akk tid i d-terniḍ tineggura-a, ladɣa anda llant talɣiwin ur neddi akken ilaq deg teqbaylit, ulamma ahat d ayen ara k-yeṭṭfen akud, l. Afud iǧehden.

Afud igerrzen ay Igider.
Ayen i d-nenna drus, d leqdic i yewwin aṭas seg wakud-inek, am uzal am yiḍ. Ssarameɣ ad yeffeɣ leɛtab-ik ɣer tafat. Tanemmirt.

What’s your process for coming up with sentences?

> Adding large quantities of near-duplicate sentences degrades the quality of the Tatoeba corpus.
(12) "whether we should have a cap on the rate of sentences added by a member" is relevant to that point. It prevents users from adding large quantities of sentences whatsoever.
A limit is just a way of making clear that mass production of sentences is unwanted.
Yes, people can create multiple accounts, but this argument would be presupposing some "criminal energy" on their part.

> Adding large quantities of near-duplicate sentences degrades the quality of the Tatoeba corpus.

What standard is being applied here to determine the quality of the Tatoeba corpus? What are you basing this judgment of quality on? Is this just your opinion?

Yksittäisen lauseen käännöksillä, vaikka ne muistuttaisivatkin toisiaan, on arvoa.

1. Ne näyttävät yhdellä silmäyksellä kuinka moninaisilla tavoilla erään lauseen voi kääntää.
2. Ne tukevat monimuotoisuutta esimerkiksi persoonapronominien sukupuolen ja yksiköllisyyden/monikollisuuden suhteen.

Lisäksi niillä on sekä positiivinen että negatiivinen vaikutus linkittämiseen; negatiivinen sinänsä, että jos joku kääntää yhden lauseen, ei hän välttämättä linkitä samankaltaisia lauseita, eihän käyttöliittymä anna tähän hyvää mahdollisuutta. Positiivinen sinänsä, että jos joku on vaikkapa suomentanut ruotsinkielisen lauseen ja toinen ranskankielisen, ja näillä olisi mahdollinen yhteinen käännös, siihen osutaan todennäköisemmin jos molemmilla lauseilla on useita käännöksiä.

I think this is agreeable, once we clarify two terms: "large quantity" and "near-duplicate".

If by "near-duplicate", we mean sentences that have basically the same meaning with basically the same grammar (i.e you replace a name in an English sentence), I'd say basically any quantity of such "near-duplicates" is just noise. Even a third sentence that just substitutes an undeclined proper name to an undeclined proper name is too much.

However, if it's a translatable word that is being substituted in, or there is some grammatical diversity between the words substituted in, I would be more lenient and therefore would rather focus on the "large quantity" part. It's okay if there is a sentence that illustrates the meaning and usage of several words in a certain context - the important thing is that 1. it shouldn't try to cover "all words" in the given context (because then the corpus is mixed with a boring dictionary) 2. if something can reasonably be deduced from an example, don't create analoguous examples for other sentences.

Loosely, I could say that for me "large amount" means generating sentences based on a logic, either manually or programmatically.

** off-topic post deleted by the author **

How is Tatoeba doing in terms of storage space?

Hello to all and best wishes. my wish for 2023 and that all these controversies stop and that Tatoeba will be better.

After transferring the sentences from Talwit to the Berber corpus, I actually asked the admins to be able to keep those with an audio recording in our corpus (kabyle). I found it abnormal and unfair that users who had spent hours making their recordings saw their efforts serving another corpus. The admins contacted Talwit who agreed to release the sentences in question.
For the flag affair, it's like seeing the European corpuses with a single flag, that of the European Union and the inscriptions: Fra, Ita, Spa, Ger, Por... to differentiate them! that does not make any sense.

Hi Igider,

Rafik was the person who complained to us and mentioned the sentences with audio, that is why he was informed about the fact that these Kabyle sentences that already had audio remained Kabyle, it's not that we went to inform him as leader of the Kabyle project. I myself do not know how your project is run or whether there is a particular leader or people just expose their complaints directly to us like the contributors of any other language.

If someone or even all the other Spanish speakers wanted to change their sentences to another language I admit I would wonder, but it would be their decision after all and I would respect it, since it is their work and their sentences we are talking about. If I had reasons to ask for such a change of my own sentences I would also not feel compelled to tell the other Spanish speakers about it, but again we might be dealing with a different way of leadership since your Kabyle project seems to have some kind of hierarchy that the other languages lack.

About not insulting Islam and Algeria but exposing facts... you added these sentences, which I would consider closer to personal opinions than proven facts:

#8111667 The Algerian Arabs are happy when the Kabyle are killed by their Arab-Islamist army.

#8111685 The minority of Kabyle who support the criminal and corrupt Algerian state are Islamist Kabyle.

#10698511 Les islamistes algériens, tout comme le pouvoir algérien dictatorial, soutiennent Poutine mais préfèrent vivre en Occident.

#8126416 Muslims who are tolerant are no longer Muslims because they no longer apply the precepts of Islam that are liberticidal.

#9635667 The majority of Muslims are ready to kill anyone who criticizes Islam which is not a religion but a dangerous sect. Don't we say that "religion is a successful sect"?

And I know there are other users who also add offensive sentences, more than you do. But complaining about them when you also write offensive sentences is kind of shocking.

13k sentences a week? Please, just shut down that bot for the night.

I wish you a happy new year, too.

It is unfortunately quite true that several contributors have introduced large quantities of redundant, near-duplicate sentences in a number of languages in the corpus. Please don't follow their example. As I've said, doing so hurts your own language. We could have a far better English corpus, for instance, if it weren't diluted with so many trivially different versions of the same sentences. People who are looking for concrete examples of vocabulary or grammar in a given language, or who want to contribute translations, need diversity.

The fact that you want to improve GPS systems is laudable, but if your approach is going to make things worse for people who want to use Tatoeba for everything else, you should go elsewhere or build your own tools for this purpose. Obviously, given the large number of existing GPS systems built without the help of Tatoeba, this can be done.

It is also true that various members of the community have violated the spirit of respect for people and groups in their sentences, comments, and communication with each other. We try to remedy this as fairly as we can, which is a difficult job for a number of reasons. However, even when you are the target of such behavior, it doesn't justify watering down your corpus by adding near-duplicate sentences on an industrial scale.

Happy new year to you all!

To the best of my knowledge, Talwit requested the change from Kabyle to Berber of all of his sentences, except the sentences with audio, which were unadopted and left as Kabyle and later on adopted by some of your people (as owner of the sentences, Talwit is the only one whose opinion is relevant in that matter. If there have been threats we have no knowledge about it). Rafik was informed about this process.

About the near-duplicates, if they're added as different translations of a sentence it's fine for me because people learn other words to say the same thing or different meanings of a sentence, which can be useful in some situations. If they're added with different names of streets, cities, people, I find it useless. And it doesn't matter what language we are talking about, actually most people who are against the use of Tatoeba to create that GPS system are also against the use of only the name Tom or Boston or the repetition of the very same sentence with different cities or people.

About the attacks in the sentences, I admit I'm surprised you bring up that topic, if I remember correctly you also added several offensive sentences against Islam and Algeria, which can still be found in the corpus. But as Alan said, it's not an easy matter to take care of.

And that of the flag, I think you also remember that after a long research the decision of changing the Kabyle flag was taken, and, as I don't think the circumstances that led to that decision have changed, I wouldn't expect that flag to come back.

@felix63 merci pour tes vœux et merci de veiller aussi bien sur le corpus français. Bonne année et bonne santé à toi aussi.