menu
Tatoeba
language
Register Log in
language English
menu
Tatoeba

chevron_right Register

chevron_right Log in

Browse

chevron_right Show random sentence

chevron_right Browse by language

chevron_right Browse by list

chevron_right Browse by tag

chevron_right Browse audio

Community

chevron_right Wall

chevron_right List of all members

chevron_right Languages of members

chevron_right Native speakers

search
clear
swap_horiz
search

Wall (7,463 threads)

Tips

Before asking a question, make sure to read the FAQ.

We aim to maintain a healthy atmosphere for civilized discussions. Please read our rules against bad behavior.

Latest messages feedback

Tamajeq1286

7 hours ago

subdirectory_arrow_right

Thanuir

yesterday

subdirectory_arrow_right

LeviHighway

2 days ago

subdirectory_arrow_right

AlanF_US

4 days ago

feedback

leucammieuvu

4 days ago

subdirectory_arrow_right

LeviHighway

5 days ago

subdirectory_arrow_right

AlanF_US

6 days ago

subdirectory_arrow_right

araneo

8 days ago

subdirectory_arrow_right

araneo

8 days ago

subdirectory_arrow_right

LeviHighway

8 days ago

minshirui minshirui August 26, 2010 August 26, 2010 at 5:21:02 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Following up on my comment here: http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/477093

I wanted to know what our general stance is on adding machine translations?

{{vm.hiddenReplies[2273] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
sysko sysko August 26, 2010 August 26, 2010 at 10:04:23 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Thanks to notice it up, I think we need to have a discussion with him. For adding machine translations, we do not want this. The goal of tatoeba is precisely to propose a better option for people willing to have a set of sentences translated in an other language,

{{vm.hiddenReplies[2277] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
minshirui minshirui August 26, 2010 August 26, 2010 at 11:20:29 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Good to know. Thank you everyone for your replies!

blay_paul blay_paul August 26, 2010 August 26, 2010 at 5:32:16 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I don't think it's ever come up before - but, bad, bad idea.

Demetrius Demetrius August 26, 2010 August 26, 2010 at 9:45:41 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

> 4. Do not translate word for word
>
> We are not interested in having sentences that sound like
> they were written by a robot. We want sentences that really
> are what a native speaker would say.
Tatoeba Blog, ‘How to be a good contributor’, rule 4 (http://blog.tatoeba.org/2010/02...eba.html#rule4)

I guess this covers machine translations. ^^

ignacy130 ignacy130 August 25, 2010 August 25, 2010 at 11:57:37 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Hi,
should I add colloquialisms as translations?

Thanks

{{vm.hiddenReplies[2264] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
saeb saeb August 26, 2010 August 26, 2010 at 1:01:33 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I don't see why not, just indicate that the translations are colloquial in a comment and a trusted user will add a tag to it...tatoeba already has colloquial sentences http://tatoeba.org/eng/tags/sho...tag/Colloquial
or read this http://blog.tatoeba.org/2010/02...n-tatoeba.html and then PM Trang (http://tatoeba.org/eng/private_...es/write/TRANG) and ask her nicely to make you a trusted user...then you can add your own tags

you can read more about tatoeba's submission policy here:
http://blog.tatoeba.org/2010/08...f-content.html

hope I helped

{{vm.hiddenReplies[2271] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
ignacy130 ignacy130 August 26, 2010 August 26, 2010 at 1:29:32 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Yes, you did! Thanks guys!

sysko sysko August 26, 2010 August 26, 2010 at 12:55:25 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

You can. The only rule is to have the best compromise between "be close to the meaning" and "being natural". If it's a formal sentence, add a translation which is also formal etC... If you think two translations can be added, you can add both, and maybe add in comment the specificity of each sentences (if one is more natural but not so close to the original meaning, and the other closer to the original meaning but maybe less natural for example).

sacredceltic sacredceltic August 25, 2010 August 25, 2010 at 8:34:20 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Je vois de nombreux doublons au point près, c'est à dire que la seule différence est la présence ou non du point final.
La procédure de déduplication ne les considère-t-elle pas comme des doublons ?

{{vm.hiddenReplies[2261] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
sysko sysko August 26, 2010 August 26, 2010 at 12:33:36 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Non le script ne détecte que les doublons parfait, je n'ai pas préféré ajouté cela, car le script de détection est assez "sale" (c'est une procédure en pl/sql de mysql) et je n'ai pas trouvé de manière propre et tout aussi ""rapide"" de le faire. De plus dans certains cas la ponctuation peut changer la traduction (même si je te l'accorde l'absence de point final ne change en rien le sens vu que c'est purement et simplement une faute).

Mais je pense qu'il faudrait pour être plus "propre" créer un script d'uniformisation, correction des majuscules, des points manquants etc. qui tourneraient avant le script de dédoublonnage. Cependant je ne pense pas avoir le temps ces prochaines semaines, de faire une telle chose.
Par contre en attendant je pense pouvoir créer petit à petit un jeu de commande sql de "nettoyage" pour ajouter les points manquants etc.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[2265] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
sacredceltic sacredceltic August 26, 2010 August 26, 2010 at 9:01:01 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Merci pour ta réponse. Vivement l'ajout automatique de points finaux, ça va résoudre plein de problèmes !
Mais je ne sasi pas si tu avais vu mon message précédent concernant les phrases nouvelles - donc non encore dédupliquées - qui apparaissaient dans les résultats de recherche.
En tout état de cause, à quelle fréquence fais-tu passer la procédure de dédoublonnage ? Le savoir me permettrait d'éviter de traduire des doublons potentiels en regardant leur date/heure de création.
Ce qui est dommage, c'est que ce sont toujours ces dernières phrases, souvent parasites, qui apparaissent toujours en premier dans les recherches...

{{vm.hiddenReplies[2275] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
sysko sysko August 26, 2010 August 26, 2010 at 10:50:50 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Il est normalement lancé une fois par semaine. il a été lancé il y a deux semaines, mais visiblement une information pour l'indexation avec un autre projet était "écrasé" parce script. Donc je dois (encore) le remodifier avant de le relancer.
Sinon je peux changer le sens d'affichage des résultats de recherches, et afficher les plus anciennes d'abord ?

{{vm.hiddenReplies[2280] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
sacredceltic sacredceltic August 26, 2010 August 26, 2010 at 10:54:53 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Je ne sais pas si il faut d'abord afficher les plus anciennes (parce qu'il y a plein de vieux tromblons...) mais il faudrait peut-être "daplacer" les 10 derniers jours (ou les phrases créées depuis la dernière procédure de déduplication) à la fin...
Voir ce qu'en pensent d'autres traducteurs en masse...

sacredceltic sacredceltic August 26, 2010 August 26, 2010 at 10:55:20 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

*"déplacer"

blay_paul blay_paul August 25, 2010 August 25, 2010 at 6:36:17 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Tatoeba beta testing

Do you get to play with the real data set, or only a 'safe' copy?

{{vm.hiddenReplies[2257] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
sysko sysko August 25, 2010 August 25, 2010 at 6:40:07 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

If you're talking about the "blue" version of tatoeba, it's a separate database with different password , so changing one does not change the other.

Swift Swift August 25, 2010 August 25, 2010 at 8:28:55 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Can someone confirm this problem I'm having? I created a few tags yesterday:
- cmt: alternative vocabulary,
- cmt: alternative grammatical number, and
- cmt: alternative gender
by adding them to
* http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/478530, and
* http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentences/show/478533
They appear at the bottom of
* http://tatoeba.org/eng/tags/view_all
but the pages to which the tags link look like the tag doesn't exist, e.g.
* http://tatoeba.org/eng/tags/sho...rnative_gender

These are the only tags with a colon, so I suspect that's the problem. I tried escaping the colon in the URL,
* http://tatoeba.org/eng/tags/sho...rnative_gender
but that doesn't work. Is this a known problem? Should I file a bug report somewhere?

{{vm.hiddenReplies[2243] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
TRANG TRANG August 25, 2010 August 25, 2010 at 4:32:13 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Yes indeed. The colon is the problem. Thanks for reporting. I created a ticket for it.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[2251] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
Swift Swift August 25, 2010 August 25, 2010 at 4:53:41 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Thanks! Looking forward to the update, by the way.

jp jp August 25, 2010 August 25, 2010 at 2:44:33 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

ow to use totoeba

{{vm.hiddenReplies[2249] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
sysko sysko August 25, 2010 August 25, 2010 at 3:02:38 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

by asking here :)
welcome!
(it's tAtoeba ^^)

If you're looking for example illustrating a word you can simply use the top menu bar in green, for example you want sentence using "example" in English sentences
http://tatoeba.org/eng/sentence...&query=example

If you see a translation is missing in your native language, you simply add translation by clicking on the "translate button" http://flags.tatoeba.org/img/translate.png

If you want to add a really new sentences you can do this by going on the contribute page

http://tatoeba.org/eng/contribute

If you have a specific need, ask, maybe it's already possible in tatoeba, or at least we can think about making it possible :)

Tell us if you have questions

sacredceltic sacredceltic August 25, 2010 August 25, 2010 at 11:35:45 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Je pense que les phrases qui viennent d'être créées et ne sont pas encore dédupliquées ne devraient pas être disponibles dans les résultats de recherche, parce qu'alors on exacerbe le problème en créant de nouvelles traductions de copies.

Swift Swift August 24, 2010 August 24, 2010 at 2:13:27 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

More on tags...

I trimmed the deleted tags from my list and added the number of sentences tagged (according to the latest tags.csv file).

There are still a few that need to be deleted and I've listed these at
http://martin.swift.is/tatoeba/tags.html#delete

Then there's the bunch that needs to be renamed. Can I just send someone a tab-separated file with the old and new names? Most are simple transliterations, but some will need to be discussed.

For example: there are several "check" tags. I suggest we merge "to check", "@Needs Native Check", "Needs Native Check" and "@grammar check" under "@check", "@native check" or something similar ("to be reviewed" as well?).

Then "delete" should be merged with "@delete". I take it this would be considerably simpler with direct database access than through the interface (though I guess one could cURL one's way through that).

{{vm.hiddenReplies[2236] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
CK CK August 25, 2010, edited October 26, 2019 August 25, 2010 at 10:46:36 AM UTC, edited October 26, 2019 at 4:07:44 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

[not needed anymore- removed by CK]

{{vm.hiddenReplies[2245] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
Swift Swift August 25, 2010 August 25, 2010 at 11:43:47 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Sorry, I failed to mention that I didn't really clean my parsing code up that well; didn't bother with false positives (I'll look into passing grep a more nuanced pattern next time around) and the script doesn't handle tags with parentheses.

I fixed the "British" tag by hand in case you want to resort your page, CK.

Demetrius Demetrius August 24, 2010 August 24, 2010 at 2:46:04 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

PG-13 is a normal tag.
be-1959acad shows that this is applicable only in the Academic variery of Belarusian; it's a normal language tag
Leopolis is a latin duplicate of Lviv ;o
Urdu is to be deleted, since we have a flag now
IMHO spoken to male should be replaced with ‘said to male’

{{vm.hiddenReplies[2239] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
Swift Swift August 24, 2010 August 24, 2010 at 3:03:20 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Thanks, Demetrius!

I've moved be-1959acad to the "Language" section, Leopolis to "redundant" and Urdu to "depopulate".

Regarding PG-13, I'm just thinking that a more culture independent tag would be more useful.

Since there is only one "spoken to male" tagged sentence and an existing "said to male" tag, I'll just re-tag that sentence and move the tag to "empty".

{{vm.hiddenReplies[2240] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
Demetrius Demetrius August 25, 2010 August 25, 2010 at 9:37:42 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Azeri is a language spoken in Azerbaijan.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[2244] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
Swift Swift August 25, 2010 August 25, 2010 at 11:39:17 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Thanks!

Demetrius Demetrius August 24, 2010 August 24, 2010 at 9:59:06 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

By the way, about the XXX tag...

How it should be used? Consider the following groups:
a) sentence describes a sexual intercourse in rude words,
b) sentence uses the rude words with an indirect meaning, to describe something other,
c) sentence describes a sexual intercourse with euphemisms
In which cases XXX tag should be used?

{{vm.hiddenReplies[2233] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
blay_paul blay_paul August 24, 2010 August 24, 2010 at 10:31:38 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I would say a) and c) and possibly b) (but depending on circumstances).

We'll probably need to fine tune that sort of thing later. It's not really a priority at the moment as the tags don't actually do much yet.

Swift Swift August 24, 2010 August 24, 2010 at 12:46:16 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

I don't think these should should be tagged under a single label. I think a) and b) could be tagged with something like "rude" or "obscene" and a) and c) with something like "sex" or "pornographic". c) should furthermore be tagged with "euphemism".

I this is actually a great time to think about how we're using and how we'd like to use the tags, seeing how it's not a priority and we can play around with them.

Demetrius Demetrius August 20, 2010 August 20, 2010 at 3:44:55 PM UTC flag Report link Permalink

Should we keep proverbs offending other nations in the database? And how should these be tagged?

We already have some Ukrainian proverbs about Russians in the database (sth like “You can ward off the devil crossing yourself, but you can’t ward off a Moskal”). ^^

{{vm.hiddenReplies[2195] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
Swift Swift August 24, 2010 August 24, 2010 at 4:36:57 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

You could tag them as "stereotype", "prejudice" or even "bigotry".

I'm all for freedom of expression, but I think that clear lines are more useful for a project such as this (oh, and trying to steer around hypocritical stances would be nice). Seeing how the aim of this project is to gather sentences and link them to translations -- not to disseminate facts -- and the web is open to anyone wanting to espouse their hate, I'm not overly concerned about losing offensive content.

I do, however, prefer the idea of simply filtering out the filth one doesn't like.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[2229] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
blay_paul blay_paul August 24, 2010 August 24, 2010 at 9:44:16 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

There are already quite a few labelled as 'Lie'. Filters would be nice (filtering out XXX sentences should be a priority if we want to be 'school friendly'), but I think that sort of content is still needed (in moderation) to give a full coverage of language usage.

{{vm.hiddenReplies[2231] ? 'expand_more' : 'expand_less'}} hide replies show replies
blay_paul blay_paul August 24, 2010 August 24, 2010 at 9:46:34 AM UTC flag Report link Permalink

> full coverage of language usage.

Talking about which, I'm reminded of a Japanese speaker who was certain that a certain body part was referred to as "pussy cat". Nothing I could say would persuade him that the 'cat' wasn't needed; he just said "I use it all the time with my girlfriend so it must be right."